Israeli sniper M14 rifle parts question.
- Thread starter suprathepeg
- Start date
some one will correct me. isreal bought or was given a load of u.s. m21's years ago. a m21 is a national match grade m14. national match meaning hand fittied and tuned parts.
-barrel's are gauged & selected for correct spec's & tolerances not chromed
-stock, walnut & impregnated with epoxy
-reciever is individualy custom fitted to the stock with fiberglass compound
-trigger group is reworked & polished to provide a crisp hammer release 4.5/4.75 ibs.
-flash suppressor is hand fitted then reamed
-gas cylinder & piston are polished
-gas cylinder and lower band are permantly attached
-all other parts are hand selected and fitted
basicaly the closest you can get is a springfield super match, all topped off with a art1 or art2 scope.
-barrel's are gauged & selected for correct spec's & tolerances not chromed
-stock, walnut & impregnated with epoxy
-reciever is individualy custom fitted to the stock with fiberglass compound
-trigger group is reworked & polished to provide a crisp hammer release 4.5/4.75 ibs.
-flash suppressor is hand fitted then reamed
-gas cylinder & piston are polished
-gas cylinder and lower band are permantly attached
-all other parts are hand selected and fitted
basicaly the closest you can get is a springfield super match, all topped off with a art1 or art2 scope.
from what i've read and what i have in the safe that are from isreal, the us GAVE the isrealis a bunch of m14 , period from surplus stock- these were NOT national match grade or anything close to that- upon arrival in isreal, these were gone through and the best ones were SELECTED for sniper duty- THESE ARE NORMAL M14 that SHOOT EXTREMELY WELL -NO HEAVY BARRELS- NORMAL CONTOUR AND CHROMED- the rest were disassembled for parts- the isrealis then added their own NIMROD sight system and an inhouse bipod- but not in all cases- the three i have ( including a new trw- have no bipod, however, there are marks on the springfield stock of having one on- ie two vertical gashes one on each side just in front of the op-rod- and they ALL have usgi FIBERGLAS stocks- the springfield also has a bunch of notches- looks like someone was keeping score- i know the plural of m14 is m14s, but i dropped the s in case someone confused it with the m14s/m305 from china we currently are getting
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The israeli's built selected stock m14 rifles into snipers. I have 6 israeli contract leatherwood 3x9 ART m14 rifle scopes. These differ from the US ART's in that they have aluminum scope mounts instead of steel. They used aluminum instead of steel because it was a navy requirement. They also have the israeli military code stamped on them. I also have two m14 rifle chests that the IDF made for the M14 rifles. I have 2 israeli fn 98k 308 mauser rifles that were also used.
I have it on good authority that Israeli snipers that were integrated into infantry companies, at least in the 80s, used accurised M14s with fiberglass stocks (I believe these were made in Israel) that had Harris bipods attached. The original scope was a crappy Swiss model that was made for use on the Mauser 98 sniper rifles of WW2 vintage. These were later replaced with Nimrod scopes in the same crappy scope mounts.
The M14s that were not accurate enough were issued to the Civil Guard.
Walter
The M14s that were not accurate enough were issued to the Civil Guard.
Walter
suprathepeg, the scopes on the M14s were not of very good quality by modern standards, but did have a post and beam reticle which made it easy to range human shaped targets. The rifle sat in a cradle in the plywood case and was held stationary by the lid. I can't guess at the value, but if you intend to use the parts on a shooting rifle, you can do much better by buying aftermarket parts. The stock was very robust and is probably the only part that has not been improved upon in the same material.
I might have a pic of a case, if you need that.
I might have a pic of a case, if you need that.
As an aside, I don't need to PM some guy on the internet with proof.
My good authority is a graduate of the IDF sniper school (he has the pin to prove it) and carried an M14 sniper rifle during his military service.
I, on the other hand, have read some stuff on some web sites, which makes me an expert.
Walter
My good authority is a graduate of the IDF sniper school (he has the pin to prove it) and carried an M14 sniper rifle during his military service.
I, on the other hand, have read some stuff on some web sites, which makes me an expert.
Walter
to funny..... yes.... lot's of internet "experts" out there...... 
Isreal aquired near 250,000 surplus m14 rifles (iirc)
in the mid 60's , the u.s. made "sniper" versions of the National Match m14 by adding a mount and scope to the original design. The Leatherwood mount came out of fort benning georgia. Lt. Leather wood's original version was the ART TEL (AKA ART1) and utilized a a Redfield3-9x accu range optic.
development of the m14 sniper continued to 1972, when the sniper versionwas dubbed M21. At this point in time, the second Leatherwood offering became issue on the u.s. sniper M21, this mount was the ART 2 and again a 3-9x with exterior cam was standard issue.
Between the years of 1986 to 1988 , it is said the most advanced sniper version was done up by Brooksfield Precision Tool with collaboration with the U.S. Army 10th special forces Group, Fort Devens, Mass. This version dubbed the XM25 was built with a medium match non chrome barrel, 'BPT' gas piston, scope mount , spring guide and a harris bipod. U.s. Special Forces chose the Leoupold 10x M3A scope, Navy Seals prefered the B&L 10x tac1 scope.
To the best of my knowledge...... isreal took the quantity of rifles they were "gifted" from the U.S.
Of these rifles, parts were guaged, and rifles were built. ALL m14 rifles that were assembled from these parts were considered to be snipers. They were built for no other purpose. ALL m14 rifles brought into canada "as complete rifles" from isreal through various importers can safely be assumed to BE the isreali standard for the m14 sniper rifle. However, many parts kits were also imported in the 80's and these bear no isreali arsenal stamps.
These rifles can consist of a mix of manufactures, to complete NM versions with all the same manufacturer parts. many of the rifles sent to isreal were from Navy match shooters arsenals.... lots of them.....
Many of the Ca 12(3) m14 rifles in canada have an electro penciled number on the bolt. In most cases, this number was applied in the U.S. , by the original unit they were requisitioned to.
There are Isreali arsenal markings on all of the rifles that the isreali's actually assembled. I have handled many isreali refurbs, some have NM usgi barrels , some do not. Some have match sights, some do not......The Isrealis were not concerned with the U.S. standards..... they wanted to put these rifles to gether to thier own. So parts were mixed and matched to build these excellent rifles.
Some of you guys, with these kinds of "deep" questions on the M14 history should get yerself aquainted with a fellow named "Different" here on the net........ He IS the authoritive "Holy One" of the M14 and the entire history of this Isreali M14 mystique is covered extensively in his writings.
I could sit here and quote Scott Duff all night as I have above....... but i don't wanna be mistaken for one of those internet know it all experts I keep hearing about
And for those who might ask..... for a barrel to be given an NM stamp..... located generally on top of the barrel between the gas assembly and the flash hider, has nothing to do with being isreali, chrome lined ..... or anything like that.
The NM stamp is only applied to a barrel that passes ALL of the guageing process to show that it is 99.99999 % bang on blue print and that for it's entire length, the bore and chamber are concentric with the external dimension.
An NM part, is a part that adheres to the strictest tolerances of the blue printed design.
Isreal aquired near 250,000 surplus m14 rifles (iirc)
in the mid 60's , the u.s. made "sniper" versions of the National Match m14 by adding a mount and scope to the original design. The Leatherwood mount came out of fort benning georgia. Lt. Leather wood's original version was the ART TEL (AKA ART1) and utilized a a Redfield3-9x accu range optic.
development of the m14 sniper continued to 1972, when the sniper versionwas dubbed M21. At this point in time, the second Leatherwood offering became issue on the u.s. sniper M21, this mount was the ART 2 and again a 3-9x with exterior cam was standard issue.
Between the years of 1986 to 1988 , it is said the most advanced sniper version was done up by Brooksfield Precision Tool with collaboration with the U.S. Army 10th special forces Group, Fort Devens, Mass. This version dubbed the XM25 was built with a medium match non chrome barrel, 'BPT' gas piston, scope mount , spring guide and a harris bipod. U.s. Special Forces chose the Leoupold 10x M3A scope, Navy Seals prefered the B&L 10x tac1 scope.
To the best of my knowledge...... isreal took the quantity of rifles they were "gifted" from the U.S.
Of these rifles, parts were guaged, and rifles were built. ALL m14 rifles that were assembled from these parts were considered to be snipers. They were built for no other purpose. ALL m14 rifles brought into canada "as complete rifles" from isreal through various importers can safely be assumed to BE the isreali standard for the m14 sniper rifle. However, many parts kits were also imported in the 80's and these bear no isreali arsenal stamps.
These rifles can consist of a mix of manufactures, to complete NM versions with all the same manufacturer parts. many of the rifles sent to isreal were from Navy match shooters arsenals.... lots of them.....
Many of the Ca 12(3) m14 rifles in canada have an electro penciled number on the bolt. In most cases, this number was applied in the U.S. , by the original unit they were requisitioned to.
There are Isreali arsenal markings on all of the rifles that the isreali's actually assembled. I have handled many isreali refurbs, some have NM usgi barrels , some do not. Some have match sights, some do not......The Isrealis were not concerned with the U.S. standards..... they wanted to put these rifles to gether to thier own. So parts were mixed and matched to build these excellent rifles.
Some of you guys, with these kinds of "deep" questions on the M14 history should get yerself aquainted with a fellow named "Different" here on the net........ He IS the authoritive "Holy One" of the M14 and the entire history of this Isreali M14 mystique is covered extensively in his writings.
I could sit here and quote Scott Duff all night as I have above....... but i don't wanna be mistaken for one of those internet know it all experts I keep hearing about
And for those who might ask..... for a barrel to be given an NM stamp..... located generally on top of the barrel between the gas assembly and the flash hider, has nothing to do with being isreali, chrome lined ..... or anything like that.
The NM stamp is only applied to a barrel that passes ALL of the guageing process to show that it is 99.99999 % bang on blue print and that for it's entire length, the bore and chamber are concentric with the external dimension.
An NM part, is a part that adheres to the strictest tolerances of the blue printed design.
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The vast majority of Israeli M14s were issued to Civil Guard and Homefront Command. These rifles were never expected to be used in battle and no effort was made to accurize them. Some had wood stocks and some had fiberglass stocks. None of these rifles had the raised cheek rest or other accessories normally seen on sniper rifles.
I suspect that most, if not all, of the ""Israeli sniper rifles" imported into Canada are the Civil Guard rifles.
I heard Norincos were better anyway...........................
{runs away..................}
depends on the make of the rifle - the later rincos are considered to be the equiv of trw, which is the "queen" of the m14 series- or at least they use 1 piece oprods , same as the trw-however the q/c is hit and miss, whereas you get q/c with a usa made rifle- basically, from that era, it was right when it left the factory, or it didn't leave
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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ALL USGI M-14s had 1 piece oprods. That means H&R, Winchester, Springfield & TRW.
"Springfield Armoury-Geneseo & Texas" & some other US manufacturers of semi-auto M1As or M14"S"es often used rewelded demilled op-rods, or new manufactured Op-rods which were 2 piece fabrications.
ALL Chinese M-14S, M-305 ect. have used 1 piece op-rods.
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