A friend brought over a 308 target rifle and we are having a bit of a hard time figuring out what the value is.He was told the action was a reworked military action?and it is stamped inside JP Gibault?It has a hand forged heavy barrel also.Anyone have any ideas?
J.P.Gibault Action?
- Thread starter dgal
- Start date
When Joe was active in the RCMP, his stock making equipment was in the detachment jail cell. I guess the residents had something to watch.
My #1 target rifle has a Gibault stock. Very comfortable. I particualrly like the way the pistol grip fits my hand.
My #1 target rifle has a Gibault stock. Very comfortable. I particualrly like the way the pistol grip fits my hand.
Looked at the rest of the photos, changing my post. Started as an Envoy, a Brit. made conversion of a No. 4 for precision shooting. Looks as if it had a side mount fitted to the receiver at one time. Altered to single shot, restocked by Gibaut as Ganderite has suggested? The trigger mechanism may be a Timney, these were sometimes fitted to Lee Enfield target rifles. Does it have provision at the muzzle for a target sight?
Looks like a really nice rifle, probably a fine shooter.
Looks like a really nice rifle, probably a fine shooter.
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This is an Envoy target rifle. It came with an Enfield hammer forged barrel. It has been re-stocked by Joe Gibault.
The vertical grip behind the trigger is what I call a pistol grip. It does not show in the picture, but it has some shape to it that feels nice to my hand.
It originally had a Parker Hale target sight mounted in the holes where the military sight would have gone. But it has had some extra holes drilled on the left side of the receiver at some point. Maybe for a side-mount scope base??
Lee Enfields, of which the Envoy might have been the best - it was purpose built as a target rifle - were favoured for long range shooting (900 to 1200 yards) even after excellent stiff target rifles were being used at short range.
We were required to shoot the military ball ammo issued at the match. The quality of this ammo would vary from year to year, but even the best of it had enough velocity variation to cause vertical stringing at long range. The Lee Enfield action uses locking lugs at the rear of the action, rather than at the front like most other rifles. When the rifle fires the entire bolt compresses. The action has more flex than other rifles. At short range (300 to 800 yards) the vertical stringing caused by ammo variations amplified by the action flexing is much worse than with other rifles. Thus, we only shot the #4 at long range.
All rifles have either positive or negative “compensation”. The effect of the #4 compensation is strongly positive. A hot round is aimed lower and a milder shot is aimed a bit higher, so that at long range they converge to the same point. Here is how it works:
Let’s say the extreme spread in 10 shots on score is 50 fps. At 1000 yards the slower rounds would be at the bottom of the group and the faster rounds would be at the top. The top and bottom of the group could easily be outside the bull.
As you know, a barrel whips and flexes when it fires. Hit a 3 foot steel pipe with a 55,000 psi whack and it is going to vibrate a lot. If the rifle is well bedded, the flexing and whipping will be quite consistent. The barrel muzzle will always be either moving up or down as the bullet leaves the muzzle.
Let’s assume the muzzle is always on the way up as the bullet exits. A faster than average bullet would then exit aimed lower than a slow bullet that exits as the barrel muzzle has moved further upwards. A #4 target rifle has positive compensation.
Americans visiting Canada and Bisley, England would snicker at our #4s and roll their eyes as we tried to explain compensation. They used Winchester 70 and Remington 40X rifles and were used to shooting match grade ammo.
I am aware of two tests to test this “compensation”. When I got back into target rifle in 1983, after being off for a few years starting a new business, I built new rifles. One of them was a #4 for long range. I had a superb Grunig and a real good Musgrave for short range and I wanted to be sure the #4 actually gave me an advantage at long range. I loaded three batches of ammo, using the Sierra 150 gr match bullet instead of the military bullet. The powder charges were 41 gr, 41.7 gr and 42.3 gr. of IMR4895.
At 1000 yards the #4 grouped the bull with all three loads. I could see no difference in where they hit. When I tried the Musgrave (like a single shot Mauser) the 41.7 was centered on the bull, the 42.3 was a bit high, with some going to the top of the bull. The 41 gr rounds missed the entire target. I became a believer.
The next year I won Bisley with a record aggregate score, missing the bull only twice at long range – with my #4.
Seven years later we were preparing to shoot the 1992 Palma Match in Raton New Mexico. A rifle test of many of our team rifles was conducted at a Quebec range. It is called “the tunnel” because it is a narrow range cut through tall trees. Very little wind.
After the testing, (with good handloads) I was advised that the worst #4 group was better than the best front locker group. Our team used a mix of #4’s and front lockers (mostly Swings and Musgraves.) We took second place, after the Brits. The Americans were a distant fifth.
The vertical grip behind the trigger is what I call a pistol grip. It does not show in the picture, but it has some shape to it that feels nice to my hand.
It originally had a Parker Hale target sight mounted in the holes where the military sight would have gone. But it has had some extra holes drilled on the left side of the receiver at some point. Maybe for a side-mount scope base??
Lee Enfields, of which the Envoy might have been the best - it was purpose built as a target rifle - were favoured for long range shooting (900 to 1200 yards) even after excellent stiff target rifles were being used at short range.
We were required to shoot the military ball ammo issued at the match. The quality of this ammo would vary from year to year, but even the best of it had enough velocity variation to cause vertical stringing at long range. The Lee Enfield action uses locking lugs at the rear of the action, rather than at the front like most other rifles. When the rifle fires the entire bolt compresses. The action has more flex than other rifles. At short range (300 to 800 yards) the vertical stringing caused by ammo variations amplified by the action flexing is much worse than with other rifles. Thus, we only shot the #4 at long range.
All rifles have either positive or negative “compensation”. The effect of the #4 compensation is strongly positive. A hot round is aimed lower and a milder shot is aimed a bit higher, so that at long range they converge to the same point. Here is how it works:
Let’s say the extreme spread in 10 shots on score is 50 fps. At 1000 yards the slower rounds would be at the bottom of the group and the faster rounds would be at the top. The top and bottom of the group could easily be outside the bull.
As you know, a barrel whips and flexes when it fires. Hit a 3 foot steel pipe with a 55,000 psi whack and it is going to vibrate a lot. If the rifle is well bedded, the flexing and whipping will be quite consistent. The barrel muzzle will always be either moving up or down as the bullet leaves the muzzle.
Let’s assume the muzzle is always on the way up as the bullet exits. A faster than average bullet would then exit aimed lower than a slow bullet that exits as the barrel muzzle has moved further upwards. A #4 target rifle has positive compensation.
Americans visiting Canada and Bisley, England would snicker at our #4s and roll their eyes as we tried to explain compensation. They used Winchester 70 and Remington 40X rifles and were used to shooting match grade ammo.
I am aware of two tests to test this “compensation”. When I got back into target rifle in 1983, after being off for a few years starting a new business, I built new rifles. One of them was a #4 for long range. I had a superb Grunig and a real good Musgrave for short range and I wanted to be sure the #4 actually gave me an advantage at long range. I loaded three batches of ammo, using the Sierra 150 gr match bullet instead of the military bullet. The powder charges were 41 gr, 41.7 gr and 42.3 gr. of IMR4895.
At 1000 yards the #4 grouped the bull with all three loads. I could see no difference in where they hit. When I tried the Musgrave (like a single shot Mauser) the 41.7 was centered on the bull, the 42.3 was a bit high, with some going to the top of the bull. The 41 gr rounds missed the entire target. I became a believer.
The next year I won Bisley with a record aggregate score, missing the bull only twice at long range – with my #4.
Seven years later we were preparing to shoot the 1992 Palma Match in Raton New Mexico. A rifle test of many of our team rifles was conducted at a Quebec range. It is called “the tunnel” because it is a narrow range cut through tall trees. Very little wind.
After the testing, (with good handloads) I was advised that the worst #4 group was better than the best front locker group. Our team used a mix of #4’s and front lockers (mostly Swings and Musgraves.) We took second place, after the Brits. The Americans were a distant fifth.
Ammunition and our handlaoding techniques are now so good that there is no net gain with a #4 at long range. I have one and have not shot it many years.
The stock is a work of art. The barrel is very good, but tight. Probably a 0.3065". It probably does not have all that many rounds through it, since most shooting is not long range.
It is a difficult rifle to price. If it was mine, I would list at $450 and then be prepared to come down $50 each month.
The stock is a work of art. The barrel is very good, but tight. Probably a 0.3065". It probably does not have all that many rounds through it, since most shooting is not long range.
It is a difficult rifle to price. If it was mine, I would list at $450 and then be prepared to come down $50 each month.
