J.P. Sauer, Oberndorf Mauser

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North of 58

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I was looking for a classic styled rifle and recently found this J.P. Sauer "Oberndorf Mauser". According to articles by Jeff Stephens in the fall and winter 2004 issues of Double Gun Journal #206010 would have been made around 1912. It is an 8x57 with the .318 bore, swaging and reloading dies came with it. It has the half octagon/half round barrel and a full rib. On the left side of the ring it has 2.5g G.B.R (which means 2.5 grams Gewehr Blattchen Pulver=military flake powder)and below that St.M.G (stands for Stahlmantel Geschoss=steel jacketed bullet). On the barrel just ahead of the ring FLUID STEEL KRUPP ESSEN is engraved. J.P. Sauer & Son, Suhl, Prussia is on the matted full length rib. 8 m.m. is on the left side of the barrel. It has an ivory insert in the front sight and a horn buttplate. There is one fixed sight marked 80 and one folding leaf marked 175. The bolt shroud and safety ect. are case hardened. It has some engraving on the barrel wedge and screw heads. This is likely one of the rifles Schoverling, Daly and Gales imported to New York up until WW1 started. I don't recall seeing one of these in Canada before, anyone else have one like it? I was surprised at how light it is, 7 lbs even with the thin leather sling. Maybe it was the "mountain rifle" of its time. At some point it was drilled and tapped for scope mounting and may have had the bolt handle replaced. Other than that it looks original to me. Most of the rifles like this I have seen on the internet have set triggers and a cheek piece, but this has a two stage trigger and no cheek piece. More indication that this was built for export to North America. I'm undecided on whether to have it reblued, it is faded and worn in places but it suits the rifle in a way. Thank you for any comments, good or bad. Are there any other photos of parts of the gun anyone would like to see?
JPSauerstockrightside.jpg

JPSaueractionleftside.jpg
 
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Thanks for the comments guys. M98, I'll get some more pictures and post them. It will not be until tomorrow though. The bluing is not as bad as the pictures show. The flash seems to have bleached it out. That is a beauty Andy. Is yours a Mauser factory rifle or a J.P. Sauer? There were several other smaller manufacturers using the commercial Oberndorf mauser actions to build their rifles at the time as well. Does it have the .318 or .323 bore? I can't find .318 bullets in Canada so I guess I'll have to swag the .323 down.
 
Great score! I love the rounded grip. I found one of these in 8x57J (.318) but it is not a quality arm by any stretch.

One interesting thing with it is the checkering on the grip is raised higher than the wood of the stock. It has the mag cut out if I remember but the other details evade me right now.

I'd vote for leaving that one as is Bob. It compliments itself as is. Unless one is going to redo the whole gun it would always look half done, that's just me tho!
 
Hunting Rifle.

WOW! What a nice find. Very classy old school hunting rifle. Re-blueing is always an issue. Here is my newest find a Lee Speed, (I have not received it yet, the deal just went through thanks to 55recce) Anyhow it too has worn bluing. But having these rifles reblued in my opinion can be acceptable as restoration is ok in my books, only matters if you want to keep the original character... can be a tough call.


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That Lee Speed is another great looking gun. Beautiful wood and I like the checking going all the way to the action. You don't see the classic old rifles on this site as often as I'd like. I can't imagine what having one made in the same style and workmanship would cost today. Anyone one else got an old gal to share? Post your pictures!
 
North of 58 said:
I was looking for a classic styled rifle and recently found this J.P. Sauer "Oberndorf Mauser". According to articles by Jeff Stephens in the fall and winter 2004 issues of Double Gun Journal #206010 would have been made around 1912. It is an 8x57 with the .318 bore, swaging and reloading dies came with it. It has the half octagon/half round barrel and a full rib. On the left side of the ring it has 2.5g G.B.R (which means 2.5 grams Gewehr Blattchen Pulver=military flake powder)and below that St.M.G (stands for Stahlmantel Geschoss=steel jacketed bullet). On the barrel just ahead of the ring FLUID STEEL KRUPP ESSEN is engraved. J.P. Sauer & Son, Suhl, Prussia is on the matted full length rib. 8 m.m. is on the left side of the barrel. It has an ivory insert in the front sight and a horn buttplate. There is one fixed sight marked 80 and one folding leaf marked 175. The bolt shroud and safety ect. are case hardened. It has some engraving on the barrel wedge and screw heads. This is likely one of the rifles Schoverling, Daly and Gales imported to New York up until WW1 started. I don't recall seeing one of these in Canada before, anyone else have one like it? I was surprised at how light it is, 7 lbs even with the thin leather sling. Maybe it was the "mountain rifle" of its time. At some point it was drilled and tapped for scope mounting and may have had the bolt handle replaced. Other than that it looks original to me. Most of the rifles like this I have seen on the internet have set triggers and a cheek piece, but this has a two stage trigger and no cheek piece. More indication that this was built for export to North America. I'm undecided on whether to have it reblued, it is faded and worn in places but it suits the rifle in a way. Thank you for any comments, good or bad. Are there any other photos of parts of the gun anyone would like to see?
JPSauerstockrightside.jpg

JPSaueractionleftside.jpg
Click to expand...
Is there a date on the receiver? Don't do anything to it. Just take good care of it. It looks just fine as it is. How about a pic of the top of the receiver. Thx.
 
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Win, Sauer didn't stamp their commercial rifles with a date like the military rifles. The factory records were destroyed in the war. The Sauer plant apparently only made military arms during the was so all pre war Sauer manufacture dates were lost. The person who wrote the articles in the Double Gun Journal was using the Sauer Oberndorf mausers to re-establish the manufacturing date for all the Sauers built from 1898-1914 before the records were lost. These rifles have both the Mauser Oberndorf factory serial number as well as the Sauer serial number. He was using the known Mauser dates to match the Sauer numbers to a date. There weren't that many made and fewer still around, so his dates had large gaps but he was able to put general times to all Sauer numbers during that time frame.

I'll take some pictures of the top of the receiver and post them tomorrow.
 
More pictures

It took awhile longer than I planned to get these pics up. I added those requested as well as the front sight and rib inscription. The 8 mm is engraved on side of the barrel on the left side by the rib engraving. The barrel just ahead of the receiver ring is engraved "Fluid Steel Krupp Essen". The matting on the receiver ring is original, the screws for the scope base aren't. Thanks for your comments.

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JPSfrontsight.jpg


Bob
 
Thanks for posting the pictures showing both sides and the top. It's pretty clear that someone in the past wanted to use a scope with your rifle. Besides been drilled and tapped, the bolt handle has been altered(replaced??) as has the safety(to an old FN low swing type).

At least now you are able to use a scope and still have a clear conscience.:)
 
I love it, although I'd have a fight on my hands if you made me choose between it and the Lee Speed!
Do you have .318 bullets to load for Mauser?
Woodleigh makes a 200gr RNSN specifically for this bore.
 
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Thanks guys. I'm debating with myself whether to put a scope on it and if so, what kind. I was thinking something like an older Weaver Steelite 2, 2x7 variable. I have a 3-9x40 Steelite 2 and the blued finish would suit this rifle. The scope holes are new and the bolt has been altered or replaced, but I thought the safety was original. I've seen several others such as this
http://www.gunsinternational.com/detail.cfm?id=100023967&string=cid=276
that is said to be original with the same safety. Apparently, some of the Sauers of that vintage came with claw mounts for scopes. I'd like to find a set of claw mounts that fit.
Kombi1976, I've seen the Australian Woodleigh bullets on the internet, as well as the U.S. firm Buffalo Arms that make the .318 bullets but I have not been able to find them in Canada. B/A website says they won't ship bullets to Canada. The gun came with some Norma .318, 196 grain bullets but not enough. It also came with a couple of boxes of .323 bullets and a swaging die so I can use them if I can't find factory. One way or another it will get used.
Bob
 
North of 58 said:
Thanks guys. I'm debating with myself whether to put a scope on it and if so, what kind. I was thinking something like an older Weaver Steelite 2, 2x7 variable. I have a 3-9x40 Steelite 2 and the blued finish would suit this rifle. The scope holes are new and the bolt has been altered or replaced, but I thought the safety was original. I've seen several others such as this
http://www.gunsinternational.com/detail.cfm?id=100023967&string=cid=276
that is said to be original with the same safety. Apparently, some of the Sauers of that vintage came with claw mounts for scopes. I'd like to find a set of claw mounts that fit.
Kombi1976, I've seen the Australian Woodleigh bullets on the internet, as well as the U.S. firm Buffalo Arms that make the .318 bullets but I have not been able to find them in Canada. B/A website says they won't ship bullets to Canada. The gun came with some Norma .318, 196 grain bullets but not enough. It also came with a couple of boxes of .323 bullets and a swaging die so I can use them if I can't find factory. One way or another it will get used.
Bob
Click to expand...

The safety on your rifle looks the same as those found on the older FN's. To me the one on the Gunsinternational site looks like a military style which was probably what your rifle had originally
 
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I have something similar that is also by J.P. Sauer. All of the markings are the same except mine has "MOD. MAUSER: J.P. SAUER & SON" on the matted rib. It has really pretty wood, double set triggers, bufffalo horn buttplate and, I believe, a replacement butter knife bolt handle and safety to allow lower scope mounting. It has also been drilled and tapped. It was a 30-06, marked "30 U.S.G. 1906.", when I picked it up but the bore was bad so I had it rebored to 35 Whelen. It has a ~25" barrel and is very light, especially since rebored. I purchased it in West Texas. Since photo'd I have replaced the rear sight. It is a fine shooter with the 250 gr Hornady RN.

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