Jacketed or Mono Bullet ? - The bang Flop Factor

The only other hit (besides CNS hits) which tends to produce instant drops is both shoulders on NA game. This is my favored shot and produces a large percentage of on the spot animals, the others are usually within 5-10 yds.
 
Pathfinder said:
Interesting indeed...Ive never been able to reproduce HS but Ive never hit an animal with any serious speed..maybe around 3000fps or a little under. Most of my thinking was brought on by a few who noted that animals hit had more tendency to wander off after getting hit by a Barnes TSX as opposed to a cup and core. (when comparing boiler room hits).
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IIRC anything over 2200 fps is sufficient. Beyond that it is just the timing that matters. The other thing that I have thought about is whether or not it matters if the animal's lungs are full of air, or it has exhaled. There are so many possibilities that I doubt anyone will figure it out with absolute certainty.
 
c-fbmi said:
The only other hit (besides CNS hits) which tends to produce instant drops is both shoulders on NA game. This is my favored shot and produces a large percentage of on the spot animals, the others are usually within 5-10 yds.[/QUOTE/

While this tends to work i have seen animals with both shoulders shot still make it a ways into the bush, i avoid these simply due to the fact i hunt more for meat than the antlers and shoulders equal meat loss.

I tend to notice the faster the bullet the quicker the animal drops, also shot plaement into the vitals, the closer you can get to the shoulder without hitting it the better, a shot 4" back that just hits the bottom of the lungs lets them go a bit, a shot up at the top of the lung usually means a bang flop. Not always but usually.
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c-fbmi said:
The only other hit (besides CNS hits) which tends to produce instant drops is both shoulders on NA game. This is my favored shot and produces a large percentage of on the spot animals, the others are usually within 5-10 yds.
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While I have to agree, Doug, I, like crazydave, deign to take these shots due to the destruction of meat involved.
This also assumes you have a good enough bullet to make it to the far side and break the offside shoulder as well.

[For myself, personally, this is a non-issue, since I will not use a bullet that cannot be depended on to penetrate well.]

And it is difficult to break both shoulders if the presentation is much off broadside, whereas through the lungs and
breaking one shoulder is relatively easy to accomplish.
This often allows for some movement of the game after the hit, but not any great distance.

Regards, Eagleye.
 
What I was able to note was that Deer didnt' take another step after getting hit with the Barnes TSX last week but it was because of shot location so I think another tough bullet would of done the same job. One of the shots was very close so expansion was not an issue.
 
CNS - Neck/Back

On the last one..He gave the Texas Heart Shot so I waited until he turned a little and decided for that since I didnt' have enough of a chance at the boiler room hit.
 
I'm using interbonds with a 300wsm and very happy with the performance, but i wonder if there is an argument for the monolithic bullet for the purpose of minimizing the chance of eating lead?
 
I think there is but I dont' know if the exposure is enough to be worried about (at least ive never really put much thought into it)..isnt' there a state in the US (California ?) that has banned the use of lead bullets ?
 
An extensive study by Charles Ruth Wildlife Biologist on 493 deer harvested..

''Cup,core type bullets significantly outperformed the hard/heavy bullets with 58 percent knock downs compared to 40 percent. Finally, and more subjectively, we looked at the percentage of deer that ran and left poor sign. Again we found a significant difference between the two groups indicating that deer struck with more expanding type bullets left poor sign only about 12 percent of the time compared to over 21 percent for the hard/heavy group''.

Firearms and ammunition - Bullet types
•Group 1 – Rapidly expanding bullets such as Ballistic Tips, bronze points, etc. Any soft point bullet of appropriate weight for a particular caliber for southeastern deer.
•Group 2 – Harder or more controlled expansion bullets such as Partitions, Grand Slams, Barnes X, etc. Any bullet that is heavier for a particular caliber than is generally recommended for southeastern deer.

•Significant difference between bullet types. This study indicates that rapidly expanding bullets lead to deer running less often and less distance and when they run they leave better sign.
 
I will concede that given a boiler room hit on light game the advantage goes to the more frangible c+c design, given their rapid expansion characteristics and much more massive organ and tissue destruction. This assumes a boiler room only with out shoulders or spine involved or only one shoulder. Given all the possible positions that a shot may be taken and all the possible angles the game may assume I still favor a very tough premium or homogenous bullet that will give ample penetration on even tough animals at less than optimum angles. Unlike the TV shows I do not have the time to wait for another animal standing for a perfect broadside, and very few I have taken have afforded me this chance. I use an adequate caliber and bullet to make sure if a hard quartering away shot is taken I have reasonable expectation of enough penetration to make it into the front 1/3 where an animal lives.
I have never been concerned with bang/flops as long as I get a debilitating and lethal first shot is my only concern. If the critter runs 5 yds or 150 yds I don't really care. If I REALLY want or need one, due to perilous proximity....... sideways, I prefer high shoulders including spine......... facing, usually just below chin for a spine, on longer necked animals or in the case of the lion just under the eyes. So again, as stated by many before it really all does come down to placement and having enough bullet and caliber to make that placement effective.
 
I'm not sure what causes bang/flop kills but I've had more bang/flop kills with my 7mm-08 and 308's than I have with my magnum caliber guns. I have no proof but I believe it has more to do with matching impact velocity to bullet design, than just bullet design.
My little 7-08 still surprises me in how effective it is at bang/flop kills and I've owned it for over 30 years.
My 8mm remington magnum which I've also owned for over 30 years has had very few bang/flop kills...in fact, after repeatedly putting numerous bullet holes in some of the moose it shot, I started waiting a period of time after firing the first two shots to give the animal time to die. Not sure why but quite often they would just stand there like nothing happened and then after a while just fall over dead.
 
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