Jungle Carbine Bolt Interchangeability?

Travis Bickle

Travis Bickle

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Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Just inherited a nice jungle carbine Enfield!
It's not been taken care of though sadly.
The bore is very rough. I don't have access to my proper cleaning stuff as we are in the middle of a move/posting. Can clearly see the rifling but there is a lot of crud in there. Going to take some heavy work.
Mostly just surface rust on all other parts and now soaking her in oil.
Stock and all metal parts are still in very good shape though!

However, the bolt is missing.
What Enfield bolts will fit/work with the jungle carbine? Forgive my ignorance. The Enfield is one of the few milsurps I don't know much about.

I may have to replace the rear sight. If the bore is completely corroded and it doesn't shoot I may even rebarrel her if I can find a spare barrel.

The rifle belonged to my wifes grandfather. It was his moose hunting rifle for many years. After they all passed on, the rifle ended up wrapped in a blanket and stuffed behind a dresser for damn near 15 years.
May get her bead blasted and reparked as well depending on price.

Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
Any Lee Enfield No 4 or No 5 bolt will work. The bolt heads have to be changed and headspace checked as needed though to put it in spec.
The No 5's of course had a hollow bolt handle and that would look best...but you'll never have a matching gun there so it's not a huge issue.
Maybe start it off with foaming bore cleaner. Make sure the foam does not come into contact with the stock set.

If the bore is truly puked, it'll never be worth a ton so don't spend too much on it.
 
Go to the milsurp site library and read the articles by Peter Ladler about the step by step sequence to fit a different / "not originally fitted" bolt into a No. 4 rifle (Same sequence for your No. 5). There was a reason they were serial numbered to the rifle! The equal bearing of both recoil shoulders, clocking of bolt head (checking for overturn), firing pin protrusion are all to be checked when trying to fit a different bolt to a rifle, besides the "headspace" (rim clearance).
 
If the h0use is not sold do a complete search, attic any little hidey hole. My pops had a run of the mill lee enfield, he hid the magazine, gone 10 years and have not found it-------------yet.
 
577/450 said:
If the h0use is not sold do a complete search, attic any little hidey hole. My pops had a run of the mill lee enfield, he hid the magazine, gone 10 years and have not found it-------------yet.
Click to expand...

It's too bad Grandad didn't clean the bore properly after hunting or shooting with corrosive ammo...which most of it was.

Pretty hard to fix that.
 
cantom said:
It's too bad Grandad didn't clean the bore properly after hunting or shooting with corrosive ammo...which most of it was.

Pretty hard to fix that.
Click to expand...

Yeah the Bore is rough to say the least.
It may clean up and I know a couple rounds of good commercial ammo through it would definitely loosen it up and blow most of the surface crud out.
Then I could start heavy duty cleaning.
Problem is I don't want to start doing that unless I know it will still actually shoot. Which I can't verify unless I had a bolt to shoot some ammunition with :(
I know I can get a #4 bolt for around $100 complete right now easily. Will look into how much hassle it is to properly tune the bolt to the rifle. Willing to put $100 into it for sure.
Then if it still shoots well and the bore blows out and cleans up, it may be worth bead blasting and refinishing the wood etc.
Would all you Enfield experts agree that to be a sound logical way to approach this? Not interested in dumping hundreds of dollars into it that's for sure.
Sad thing is that other than the missing bolt, she is all matching! :( What a bummer.....
 
And another question (which I'm afraid I already know the answer in this country) how hard would it be to source a new Jungle Carbine barrel?
Even a well used lightly beat to #### one would be better than one that doesn't shoot at all.
 
Travis Bickle said:
And another question (which I'm afraid I already know the answer in this country) how hard would it be to source a new Jungle Carbine barrel?
Even a well used lightly beat to #### one would be better than one that doesn't shoot at all.
Click to expand...

About the only way to pick up another barrel is to buy another rifle. A #4 barrel will work just as well and can be cut down to match the length. A step further and you can find a repo flash hider that is designed to fit the cut #4. This however, is not a back yard job or do it yourself with a pipe wrench. Don't lose faith in the old barrel. Some pretty cruddy bores shoot not too bad.
As to fitting the bolt to the rifle. The raw fact is that as long as the round chambers, it won't blow up. Take any bolt, fire one round and carefully inspect the casing for deformation. That tells the story.
 
You would be surprised at how well some bores clean up. It won't be a mirror or anything but underneath all that crud can sometimes be a decent Bore . My first rifle was like that. Dark and dirty but cleaned up well. A few rounds after cleaning can also brighten it up as well. As for the missing bolt. Put and ad on the ee. Probably find a decent priced on. Bolt heads of varying size are can also be found for not too much.
 
points said:
About the only way to pick up another barrel is to buy another rifle. A #4 barrel will work just as well and can be cut down to match the length. A step further and you can find a repo flash hider that is designed to fit the cut #4. This however, is not a back yard job or do it yourself with a pipe wrench. Don't lose faith in the old barrel. Some pretty cruddy bores shoot not too bad.
As to fitting the bolt to the rifle. The raw fact is that as long as the round chambers, it won't blow up. Take any bolt, fire one round and carefully inspect the casing for deformation. That tells the story.
Click to expand...

LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
You would be surprised at how well some bores clean up. It won't be a mirror or anything but underneath all that crud can sometimes be a decent Bore . My first rifle was like that. Dark and dirty but cleaned up well. A few rounds after cleaning can also brighten it up as well. As for the missing bolt. Put and ad on the ee. Probably find a decent priced on. Bolt heads of varying size are can also be found for not too much.
Click to expand...

You guys here have restored my faith. The old beast may yet live again!
Found a #4 bolt on the EE
Going to give her a go.
Been reading on some tricks to clean up a crudded bore.
Going to give it a go. Most of the reading on the "horrors" of Enfield bolt swapping I have done so far are from handloaders loading for precision and worried about case thinning etc and micrometer measurement accuracy losses.
Will actually post some pics of the progress once I get settled in new location.
Thanks for all the help guys!
 
I've seen some pretty sad bores over the years. Recently, I got one which was so bad, I plugged the barrel at the muzzle and filled it with bore cleaner, let that sit overnight, and brushed the following day. Yuck. The sludge that came out... that turned out into a rifle capable of hitting a paper plate at 100 yards. As others have mentioned, sometimes bad bores still shoot half-decently. Not always, but sometimes. If there's rifling, there's hope.

Lou
 
A homemade electronic bore cleaner is easy to make and will remove a remarkable amount of fouling and crud.
Peter Laidler's articles are worth reading.
Any time I've installed a bolt, I want both lugs to make contact, and headspace to be within spec., closer to the lower limit than the upper.
 
So update:
Stripped it down. Every pin, nut, spring and screw came out of it. Right down to full dissasembly minus the barrel in the action.
It was pretty rough in some places. I used 000 steel wool dry to get the hard and baddest rust off.
Then soaked the entire thing in penetrating oil and all the parts. Then used a dremel tool with stainless wire bit to get the rest of the rust off the best I could off all parts and receiver/barrel.
Tested in a small spot and it did not remove the hardened black finish at all but cleaned 90% of all rust off. It's in amazing shape despite the neglect. The other sad thing is that aside from the missing bolt it was all original, all matching! Made in 1947 by Far in England AC 3 serial number range :(
Found a mint No4 bolt off the EE for $50 with a #2 bolt head. It closes nicely on a chambered cartridge and there is good solid contact on the lug and very positive extraction etc
The bore was....a lot of work. I plugged the muzzle and literally filled it up with a mix of Moovit and CLP and let it sit for 2 days.
Then copper brushed it and patch pulled it for about 2 hours, repeated that whole process again and even wrapped some 0000 steel wool around the brush at the end of the process to really get the last of any rust out. There is still very solid rifling in the bore! I got almost all the crud and surface rust out to the point where there is still some good shine even and smooth steel in there!
She is reassembled and ready for her range trip I just need to find the time. I did the best I could without sand blasting and reparking. It looks like a brand new rifle.
The bad news is one of the ears on the front side is cracked at the base and bent a little, still solid but looks weird.
If it still shoots very well, it should blast the last of the crud out of the bore. If still shoots very accurate I may actually sand blast the whole receiver and barrel and duracoat it myself.
Pics and range trip to follow! Thanks for the tips and info guys much appreciated.
 
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Well finally got her out.
Here is an update for anyone that was still watching.
This is after meticulous cleaning. Full dissassembly and many hours of slow and steady cleaning with steel wool and rotary wire brush bit.
The bore cleaned up after shooting it with plenty of shine left and razor sharp rifling. There is some slight pitting from the surface rust between the lands but it clearly still shoots!
The painting on the stock is actually from the wifes grandfather when he used the rifle for moose hunting before he died many years ago. He was a Sioux Band Chief.
Here's some pics:









And 5 shots at about 75 meters:

 
Not bad at all ! I've seen people who couldnt group like this with a brand new C8 at 25m...

Did you use the combat sight or the "ladder sight" ?

What did you use for ammo ?
 
Travis:

Document the markings on the stock with the name and circumstances of the previous owner. Some numpty on the internet will feel compelled to give you schnit for carving on a perfectly good arsenal stock. On the Prairies, authenticated Indian guns are quite sought after. Keep the sling, but chase down a better one. That is a wartime canvas model, and they aren't making those any more.


As for the grouping, you missed the big number 4. Get back out there and shoot some more!
 
DT741 said:
Not bad at all ! I've seen people who couldnt group like this with a brand new C8 at 25m...

Did you use the combat sight or the "ladder sight" ?

What did you use for ammo ?
Click to expand...

Used the ladder sight slightly between the 200 minimum mark and bottomed out.
Ammo was Soft Point Federal 180gr's.
I couldn't produce anything even worth taking a photo of using the battle sight, it's far too open to get a consistent hold. The front blades on these rifles are very thin lending to ease of consistency on POA with the tiny ladder hole I find.

The nice 1" wide piece of hard-as-steel rubber pad makes shooting it very painful on the shoulder though! 20 rounds that day was enough for me for a while lol

maple_leaf_eh said:
Travis:

Document the markings on the stock with the name and circumstances of the previous owner. Some numpty on the internet will feel compelled to give you schnit for carving on a perfectly good arsenal stock. On the Prairies, authenticated Indian guns are quite sought after. Keep the sling, but chase down a better one. That is a wartime canvas model, and they aren't making those any more.


As for the grouping, you missed the big number 4. Get back out there and shoot some more!
Click to expand...

lol If someone doesn't like it they take it up with the dead man who owned it before me/can politely go f**k their hats...

The rifle actually belonged to my wifes Grandfather who was a Sioux band chief originally from Manitoba I believe. He used the rifle for many years hunting and catching many moose and deer with it before he died. All the carving/painting on the stock was done by him prior to his death.
The reason the bolt was missing is because for certain reasons the police were called to my wifes house when she was very young, her grandfather was living with her and her parents at the time (this is at least 20+ years ago) he had just returned from moose hunting and had the rifle apart for cleaning on the table. The police asked him if he had a licence, he said no. They asked him if he had a hunting licence/tag for the moose hanging in the backyard, he said I'm a card carrying native and I don't need one. They confiscated the bolt from the rifle and said come get it back when you get a firearms licence. He died shortly after and the bolt was never recovered. The rifle then went into a blanket and was buried in a closet for 20+ years until it was given to us by an old family member just this spring at which point I set about to restoring it back to fighting shape.

Thanks for all the info and help on this guys. Much appreciated! The wife got a little wet in the eyes seeing her old Grand Pappy's moose gun back in shooting shape.
Debating on sand blasting the barrel and receiver and cerakoting it as there is still a lot of crusted surface rust on/under the barrel and all over the front sight block which I couldn't remove without going very heavy on it and destroying the surface finish all around. Don't want it to keep corroding. I have a thick layer of grease and oil on her now.
 
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