Just bought a BP 10 gauge Damascus...

[mooncoon]

i dont think starline makes shotshells starline seems to be mentioned alot when thay dont even mak that product and most of that seems to be done by you mooncoon RMC is the only place i know of who still makes 10ga brass shotshells

plastic shell can be use but thay like to melt with BP and in a damascus that has not been proofed for smakeless BP is the only way to go

with BP you also dont want to use plastic wading you want card wads as plastic wads melt even more with BP

I stand corrected on the Starline issue; it was Magtech that made the shells that I bought from Mystic Precision. If my memory is correct, they were about $28 for 25 plus taxes and shipping and came to somewhere around $35 or a bit more total. I also believe it is the first time that I have mentioned buying Starline or Magtech shot shells. I use a variety of brass shells for snider and martini shells, from Bell and Epps and others who may or may not still be producing them.

I use plastic shells loaded with black powder most of the time and can get quite a few reloadings out of them. The front half tends to become somewhat scorched but they continue to be serviceable. I use 80 gr of 2F and 1 1/8 oz of shot for 12 guage. I suspect that your 2.5 inch chambers are actually 2 5/8" for roll crimps and while in the beginning I trimmed my plastic shells, I no longer do although I would unquestionably trim paper shells because they are considerably thicker.

the only part that I will agree with is that of not to use plastic shot cups because they have a reputation of leaving plastic smears on the bore.

There were tests to destruction done in the 1890s comparing good quality fluid steel barrels with good quality damascus barrels. There was so much overlap in the loads which destroyed that barrels that neither type could be declared stronger than the other. I have little doubt that modern barrels are stronger but I also feel that barrels made in the early 1900s are probably similar to damascus barrels in strength. The big issue is the wall thickness, particularly near the muzzle. Most double shotgun cartridge barrels are around .15" at the breach regardless of age. What does vary considerably is the muzzle thickness which can vary from .050" or more down to .015" or so. I believe that you need to use considerable caution when you get down that small in wall thickness.

Much like Tiriaq said, on those few times when I have shot paper shells, by the third shot they were definitely perforated by grains of powder

cheers mooncoon

 

[camerl2009]

Chap at Double Gun Journal did some fairly extensive pressure testing of the pressures generated by black and smokeless for black loads. These were working loads, not magnum level. Pressures were determined two ways, with a strain gauge on a shotgun, and with a universal receiver test bed setup. Guess what? There isn't much difference in pressures. Lots of folks categorically state that black produces lower pressure than smokeless. Just isn't so. Now there are modern loads that produce pressures a lot higher than modest everyday working loads. And there is no way of knowing exactly what pressure is produced by a given factory load. But do not make assumptions or generalizations.
Same chap also did deliberate overload testing of damascus barrels. Guess what? Looks as if sound ones will take significant abuse.
So what if there is a bit of melting when BP is used in plastic shells? They're cheap, discard them. It will be necessary to make wadcutters to get wads the correct diameter. But this is true of brass shells as well. Remember paper shells? They burn through with black. Once again, they were cheap and easy to replace.
With 80gr of powder and 1 1/8oz of shot in a 2 1/2" shell, what wad column are you using? What crimp?

you can buy wads for them you dont need to cut them and RCM brass is the same ID as normal shells so if you wanted you can use smokeless and normal wads !)ga plastic is not cheap or easy to i find and thats why i suggested beass

i use 1 .125 nitro card ,1 1/2" fiber was lubed with BP lube and 1 over shot card over the shot, i roll crimp

 

[tiriaq]

You must be using cases with greater volume than I am. To get a 1 1/8oz. load with an appropriate charge, I must use a shorter wad column. These are roll crimped with a thin overshot wad.

 

[Win 38-55]

The fellow who writes for the Double Gun Journal is Sherman Bell. He emailed me a list of issues where he tests old damascus barrels with various tests and smokeless powder and even modern smokeless proof loads. I have the last article. Those old shotguns, even in well used condition, are stronger than I thought. Here are the issues with his test articles on shotguns ...

Summer 1999
Winter 1999
Winter 2001
Summer 2002
Summer 2005
Autumn 2006
Winter 2006
Summer 2007
Summer 2008

 

[mooncoon]

You must be using cases with greater volume than I am. To get a 1 1/8oz. load with an appropriate charge, I must use a shorter wad column. These are roll crimped with a thin overshot wad.

I use plastic remington shells for black powder so that I can tell them from the smokeless ones in a winchester AA case. I use 80 grains of 2 F plus a fiber muzzle loading wad then shot measured with an old fashioned adjustable dipper and finally a thin card wad and a partial roll crimp(12 guage cases). The reason for the partial crimp is that I am still using some old shells that I shortened years ago and use those for hunting and obviously don't shoot them often.

My feeling is that a plastic shell roughly .010 thick extending 1/8 " into the forcing cone does not increase pressure dramatically. My velocity appears to be somewhere between 1050 and 1080 --- can't remember as it was a couple of years ago and was 20 - 40 fps slower than smokeless target loads (to my surprise) On the smokeless loads I use plastic shot cups and star crimps in AA cases

The only paper cases that I have used were in an 8 guage and made from industrial kiln shells with the extra rim stripped off. Forgotten my load but I think I used 1 7/8 oz of shot and 10 guage muzzle loading wads squished out to 8 guage. Powder granules were starting to penetrate the paper with the first shot and by third shot the cases had definitely had the bisquit

I do shoot plastic shells and black powder in 20 guage and with a star crimp because I am worried about excessive pressures with smokeless. There are published low pressure loads for 12 guage but not for 20 guage

cheers mooncoon