Just got m305... Reloads and should I even keep this thing
- Thread starter countyboy
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boss351cleveland
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Crimping is important when shooting ammo in a semi auto rifle especially a Garand type action .. If the bullet gets pushed into the case during feeding there can be serious pressure dangers ..
From sierra on loading semi autos...
To counteract this tendency, the semi-auto shooter is left with basically two options: applying a crimp or increasing neck tension. The first option, crimping, brings up some other issues that can be troublesome. In general, crimping degrades accuracy. Most match bullets are not cannelured (which also seriously damages accuracy potential), a requirement for correct application of most crimps. Still, there are taper crimp dies available from most of the major manufacturers. Lee offers their “Factory Crimp” die as an alternative, which seems to be one of the better options for those bullets without a cannelure. That having been said, crimping is still, at best, an occasionally necessary evil. Avoid it if at all possible.
The other—and in our opinion, better—option is increased neck tension. This, in turn, leaves us with two more options depending on what type of equipment you’re using. The object of either is simply a tighter grip on the bullet. Using conventional sizing dies, (i.e., those utilizing an expander ball) this is accomplished by reducing the diameter of the ball itself. This can be done by chucking the expander/decapping rod into a drill and turning it down slightly with fine emery cloth or a stone. The goal here is to decrease the diameter two or three thousandths (0.002" to 0.003") under bullet diameter. This is a trial and error process, and must be done slowly. The end result is an expander ball that opens the case neck up somewhat less than the as-issued item. This, in turn, increases the grip of the case neck on the seated bullet. "
Do a search on m14 forum and see how many of the old weathered m14 wisemen crimp. a couple do but nobodys heard of a real world reason to. crimp optional.
Ardent
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There is a terrible amount of potentially dangerous misinformation here.
Reloads for M14s should ALWAYS be full length resized, ideally with a small base die. Odds are your fired brass from your M14 is "fire deformed" not fire formed as the M14 begins its ejection cycle with pressure still in the case. For best accuracy, let alone safety and ensuring no resistance chambering (an out of battery firing is possible if an M14 encounters chambering resistance and everything isn't working perfectly) brass MUST be fully resized.
Next, crimp is critical in a semi, as a bullet can easily be stuffed deep into the case by a feeding hang up and still chamber. This is an excellent recipe for an instant kaboom due to spiked pressure, as you've just reduced your case volume drastically, compressed the powder, and the bullet is likely askew too at that point. So full length resize ideally small base, don't go above 168gr, crimp (Lee factory crimp die is excellent) and stick to mild loads- especially in a current Norc! I wouldn't go past 3 firings personally on fired brass as a failure in an M14 can end very badly.
Reloads for M14s should ALWAYS be full length resized, ideally with a small base die. Odds are your fired brass from your M14 is "fire deformed" not fire formed as the M14 begins its ejection cycle with pressure still in the case. For best accuracy, let alone safety and ensuring no resistance chambering (an out of battery firing is possible if an M14 encounters chambering resistance and everything isn't working perfectly) brass MUST be fully resized.
Next, crimp is critical in a semi, as a bullet can easily be stuffed deep into the case by a feeding hang up and still chamber. This is an excellent recipe for an instant kaboom due to spiked pressure, as you've just reduced your case volume drastically, compressed the powder, and the bullet is likely askew too at that point. So full length resize ideally small base, don't go above 168gr, crimp (Lee factory crimp die is excellent) and stick to mild loads- especially in a current Norc! I wouldn't go past 3 firings personally on fired brass as a failure in an M14 can end very badly.
If you like to live dangerously don’t crimp for a centerfire semi-auto, on the other hand if you like to follow decades of wisdom and experience by all means crimping is essential especially in the M14 type rifle. The inertia from the bolt slamming closed when cycling could cause forward movement of the projectile while still in the case causing decreased pressure, possibly degrading accuracy and likewise during cycling and while feeding into the chamber & ramp the bullet can be pushed backwards into the case thus potentially causing an extreme over pressure situation, this is why milspec semi-auto ammo is always cannelured & crimped and/or is always crimped.
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I agree with this post. Fire deformed is an excellent way to describe what happens to M14 brass (particularly in grossly oversized chambers)and also explains why military brass is thick at the case head. I would also suggest that FMJ, HPBT or ballistic tip type bullets be used as the cycling of the action tends to deform soft nosed bullets. That's not life threatening but it can't be great for accuracy.
People are just like parrots, they just repeat what they hear.
If you stop to consider the underlying wisdom of much of the above it is well intended within the context in which it was originally written by the original author. Unfortunately when the conversation turns to oversize Norinko chambers - the original intent is out the window and a disclaimer must kick in. That disclaimer would read something to the effect that you should always FL resize when you have a sammi spec chamber. If your chamber is oversize then you must size the brass to compensate for the amount of oversize. This way you maintain the intent of the original author. This is not to suggest that headspace should be set tightly to the chamber, but with a reasonable amount of clearance as originally intended by the sammi spec. This will minimize case stretch and maximize case life - even if you do only reload the case 3 times - which is a good idea by the way.
to the point of cases being fire deformed - yes this is how it was originally written by Zediker and at the base of the statement you will find truth. The statement applies to cases extracted by the gas system - if you fire the case with the gas system off - that case is in fact reflective of your rifles chamber and is a valid point of reference for headspace. Just size cases a few thousandths short of that and you will have no worries.
Regarding a crimp... you should only crimp bullets that have a provision for a crimp, Do not crimp bullets that do not have a provision for a crimp - but you definitely should always use heavy neck tension when loading for a semi auto. To ensure that you have heavy neck tension, you should never anneal cases for an M14.
If you stop to consider the underlying wisdom of much of the above it is well intended within the context in which it was originally written by the original author. Unfortunately when the conversation turns to oversize Norinko chambers - the original intent is out the window and a disclaimer must kick in. That disclaimer would read something to the effect that you should always FL resize when you have a sammi spec chamber. If your chamber is oversize then you must size the brass to compensate for the amount of oversize. This way you maintain the intent of the original author. This is not to suggest that headspace should be set tightly to the chamber, but with a reasonable amount of clearance as originally intended by the sammi spec. This will minimize case stretch and maximize case life - even if you do only reload the case 3 times - which is a good idea by the way.
to the point of cases being fire deformed - yes this is how it was originally written by Zediker and at the base of the statement you will find truth. The statement applies to cases extracted by the gas system - if you fire the case with the gas system off - that case is in fact reflective of your rifles chamber and is a valid point of reference for headspace. Just size cases a few thousandths short of that and you will have no worries.
Regarding a crimp... you should only crimp bullets that have a provision for a crimp, Do not crimp bullets that do not have a provision for a crimp - but you definitely should always use heavy neck tension when loading for a semi auto. To ensure that you have heavy neck tension, you should never anneal cases for an M14.
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Are you suggesting to only crimp a cannelured projectile?
Lee FCD is made to crimp non-cannelure bullets without deforming
I have been shooting and working on my own M14`s since 1984 so I speak from some experience on this matter . Use a Small Base Full Length sizing Die it will make a difference on the safe operation of your rifle . It also make your ammunition very consistent which equates into accuracy as it sits in the chamber the way it was meant to not smashed into the chamber like a neck sizing will do .If you wish to throw caution into the wind and do not mind that your actions may injure or maim others or yourself use a neck sizing die and hope for the best because it is not a case it may happen it is a case of when it will happen and pray that it is only your pride and your rifle that get hurt NOT YOU .
Dillon’s Taper Crimp Die takes care of that and I don’t think there's any real evidence that crimping degrades accuracy in the M14 type when using Dillon's TCD.
boss351cleveland
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
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I dont know what you have read where ... but i would wont be firing un crimped bullets in my M14 too often thats for sure ,, i know most guys dont like the idea of crimping a match bullet with no cannelure but i will still crimp it slightly , but do what you will man at your own risk , Crimping is a golden rule in semi autos , most here agree ..
I don't recall any mention of neck sizing. What is the big deal about small base dies?
Not all of us. I have been reloading for M14 type rifles since the late 80's when I had a TRW. I have read countless articles on these rifles written by many experts on the subject. Sizing a few thousandths under is ideal and prevents you from overworking your brass but most of the guys here are new to it and lack the equipment. Initially they need to keep it simple and as their experience increases they can become more technical. That's one of the fun things with reloading, you can continue to improve your method as you expand your knowledge and tool selection. In the meantime we don't want anyone hurt.
Use good brass only four times, uniform your primer pocket, full length size, seat hard primers properly, use 150-168 gr bullets. Not that tough.
