Went by epps & picked up my P1. I finally had a good look at it & it looks as new. Were these things actually used? It didn't like 115 winclean, too light a load. 124gr umc functioned well but shot low & to the left. It seems to like heavy loads, anyone know what the Germans used? How do you like yours?
Just got my P-1
- Thread starter desporterizer
- Start date
desporterizer said:
P-1 is actually post WWII version of P38, with aluminium frame and, according to some posts, with some kind of steel inserts used as guides for a slide. I think that it was used mostly by police.
The main reason I am responding is to make you aware to shoot in P1, P38 and Lugers 9x19 ammo that is for the pistol ONLY. Any attempt to shoot hot, high pressure submachine ammo will wreck noted pistols in short order. If I got it right, for that reason (at that time in W. German) Army used some other, stronger pistols. Hope that other, more knowledgeable members could tell us more.
Despite I really like P38, because of that ammo issue, I do not want to have any 9x19 pistol that cannot shoot full power 9x19 ammo.
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Onty said:
The Germans never had any different loadings for their 9 mm Para
(9mm Luger) and their subguns. All used GECO 115 gr./125 gr. ammo and all
made in Germany (Gustaf Genschow & Co.) Since the MP 18/28 up to the MP40 and later the Uzi in German Military circles the loads (Laborierung) never changed, just different powders but same pressures.
The only country in Europe that used hotter loadings in their pistol cartridges
was Checheslowakia (CZ 52 and their Model 23-24-25 subguns.(30% more)
Italy had some during the war for their Berettas MP 1938-A. No more exist.
I hope this puts everybodies mind at ease.
There were some other surplus military 9mm subgun ammo that was high pressure, Israeli +P+, and I believe there used to be some small quantities of CIL or IVI.
It is quite difficult to find this ammo around if you are buying from most stores, even surplus. If it is subgun ammo, they usually say it is.
If you buy unidentified ammo from gunshows, or from the back of a truck ...... you usually get what you pay for. You would really have to try really hard to find any of this high pressure ammo so it is really a non issue.
Go shoot and enjoy, your P-1, just like i enjoy mine It will safely digest any ammo you throw at it, and if, when the moon is blue, you do feed it a subgun round, you will be able to tell the difference right away, but it won't do any damage unless you feed it a long and steady diet of them. The same goes for ANY modern 9mm pistol, as they were not designed for a constant diet of high pressure ammo.
I just found the following table:
http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#+P
Note that the +P+ loads are still less than proof loads.
It is quite difficult to find this ammo around if you are buying from most stores, even surplus. If it is subgun ammo, they usually say it is.
If you buy unidentified ammo from gunshows, or from the back of a truck ...... you usually get what you pay for. You would really have to try really hard to find any of this high pressure ammo so it is really a non issue.
Go shoot and enjoy, your P-1, just like i enjoy mine It will safely digest any ammo you throw at it, and if, when the moon is blue, you do feed it a subgun round, you will be able to tell the difference right away, but it won't do any damage unless you feed it a long and steady diet of them. The same goes for ANY modern 9mm pistol, as they were not designed for a constant diet of high pressure ammo.
I just found the following table:
http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#+P
Note that the +P+ loads are still less than proof loads.
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I tried some of the P1s on the range. They didn't last as long as the Norinco stuff. They are just not as durable as more modern designs. I would therefore recommend against shooting them alot. I had slides and barrels crack after only a few thousand rounds.
Thanks for the input, but I am not going to shot surplus(not that I can find any) out of it. I was just surprised the winclean didn't have enough punch to cycle the action properly. I like the design but if I can't sort out the low & left problem(might just be me) its off to get traded for another type.
redleg said:
Well, Redleg, here we are again.
'Not as durable as a modern design??
How modern would you consider the exact same lock-up
that the Beretta 92 has copied from the P-38, and now P-1 ?
I would appreciate to see some pictures of the above mentioned failures
if it is still possible.
Greetings...
Globetrotter said:
Well metallurgy has come along way in the past 60 years. Also the same system does not equal the same strength. Try measuring the thickness of a P38 or P1 slide wall some time.
I'm not saying the guns are crap, they are examples of an older model that have collectioon appeal. They are not the equivalent on a modern gun in terms of strength or durability.
I'll post pics if I can find all the bits.
I can't remember where I read this line about what W. German soldiers thought of their now obsolete P-1/P-38 service pistol it went like this
P-1, "You fire seven warning shots and one to save yourself" I think that was how it went. Guess they did not think too highly of the P-1's accruacy.
So what did I do after reading that, I went and bought one. Paid too much for it also.
What a nut
P-1, "You fire seven warning shots and one to save yourself" I think that was how it went. Guess they did not think too highly of the P-1's accruacy.
So what did I do after reading that, I went and bought one. Paid too much for it also.
What a nut
I think with proper lubing and cleaning the P1 should last a long time. They were made from 1957 to 1992 so the later models will have fairly modern alloy techniques used. I do notice on mine that there is alot of bearing surfaces on the frame from the slide, both on top and bottom of the frame rails. I certainly wouldn't run one of these dry and have applied a light coat of grease on all the shiney spots on my frame. It looks like muzzle flip will be noticeable with all the weight at the back of the slide.....
P1's
Have to agree. I bought a used P1 at a local gunshow a couple of years back and had a time finding ammo it would reliably digest. The locking block had to be replaced not long after, the double action trigger pull was appalling and the bugger did indeed "snap awfully". Eventually sold it for what I bought it for, so at least I learned something.Martin said:
