K98 SS Contract & Possible Single Rune and ZF41 Sniper

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agentcq

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I am thinking of selling two rifles out of my collection and wanting the opinions on price.

The rifle itself is a Ukraine Capture (RC), but with the nicer non-shellaced stock and nicer over all finish.

What I know about the rifle is that it is a bnz 43 SS contract rifle. From the serial (no letter suffix, lack of waffen amts etc, serial number range, etc.) this rifle was assembled (or at least the barrel and reciever were assembled) as an SS contract rifle under SS control at a satellite styer camp which used forced labour. There is no doubt that this was an SS gun.

However, the rifle has one single rune which is stamped off centre. The question is whether the rune was added by the importer or in the Ukraine to increase the value on a known SS gun or whether the rune is orignal WWII and simply mis-placed is the remaining question.

Thoughts.

Second rifle is another Ukraine Capture, but this one has a ZF41 Stock and ZF41 rear sight rail. AR42.
All one needs is the ZF41 scope and mount (originals and reproductions available) and one has a Sniper or Sniper clone.

Thoughts
 
x2, love to see pictures.

I read that the single "S" rune meant assembly by concentration camp workers near the Steyr plant under SS supervision but did not mean the rifle was an SS issued one. The double SS mark or skull and bones should be present on the barrel or near the serial number.

Considering the lack of markings applied to rifles near the end of the war and that SS marked rifles are not my expertise, we'll need to call in the experts (old farts ? :D) on this one.
 
one way to figure out if the rifle is SS contract / check the eagles head if facing HIS right shoulder then its regular army and etc. but if its looking towards HIS left shoulder means its SS contract but still pix are good for this thread
 
I use to have one of the single rune K98, basically produced at the Mauthausen death camp by slave labour under SS supervision.
 
Hosting pics for member ... ;)

Here's agentcq's first two rifles ...

First 5 pics are of my bnz 43 the last two are a bnz 4 Single Rune also in my collection.


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IMG_0546.jpg


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Click to expand...

Regards,
Doug
 
Funny JP jumped in, I bought the zf41 from PS about four years ago for $900.
I found a bolt mis-match zf41 and decided that I probably don't need two around.

As per the SS guns. There are various recognized versions of SS rifles.
1. Gew98 Reconditioned Guns (often marked with deaths head or zssa eagle)
2. SS Snipers (usually marked deaths head or zssa eagle)
3. bnz 44 (SS slave labour contract rifle, no letter suffix)
4. bnz 42, 43, 4 Contract rifles (SS slave labour contract rifles, usually no letter suffix)
5. Single Rune bnz rifles (SS slave labour contract rifles, usually no letter suffix)
6. G24T's converted Czech rifles, often used by the SS

The SS had to draw weapons from the Wehrmacht, which had a distaste and distrust of the SS. It was the dream of Himmler to have his own supply of weapons. He tried to achieve this by converting Gew 98's, and by trying to set up his own satellite camps or factories which could draw weapons away from Wehrmacht production. These were simply assembly factories. Neunegamme was used for AC (Walther) G/K43 production and Styer used satellite camps to assemble rifles ear marked for the SS. They are often lack many of the waffen amts and acceptance marks of Heer rifles and once diverted at the front to Wehrmacht units at times caused extensive grief. In general they were Styer made parts, assembled under SS slave labour and supervision with the hopes of being delivered to the SS as they did not fall under the proper distribution of the Wehrmacht.

Someone was nice enough to host pics of the bnz43 and of my bnz4. I still need to get pics of the zf41.

I shared this info with the authors of the book "Kriegsmodell" and host of the www.k98kforum.com which is quickly becoming the front line website for K98 research.
The authors agreed that the bnz 4 is a confirmed Single Rune rifle and was added to their serial number list. Interesting enough, it had a contracted dot barrel (Bruno managers also had SS connections). The bnz 43 is a confirmed SS contract rifle, but a uncertain Single Rune rifle due to the placement. The rune itself looks good, but the placement is off. The most interesting thing about this rifle is it is the only bnz 43 known in exisitance with a contracted dou barrel. If it didn't have the classic Styer serial numbers matching the reciever it would more than likely be a replacement barrel, but the authors confirmed that it was legit and were quite excited about the new Bruno/SS connection which became more identifiable to their research.
 
agentcq said:
I am thinking of selling two rifles out of my collection and wanting the opinions on price.

The rifle itself is a Ukraine Capture (RC), but with the nicer non-shellaced stock and nicer over all finish.

What I know about the rifle is that it is a bnz 43 SS contract rifle. From the serial (no letter suffix, lack of waffen amts etc, serial number range, etc.) this rifle was assembled (or at least the barrel and reciever were assembled) as an SS contract rifle under SS control at a satellite styer camp which used forced labour. There is no doubt that this was an SS gun.

However, the rifle has one single rune which is stamped off centre. The question is whether the rune was added by the importer or in the Ukraine to increase the value on a known SS gun or whether the rune is orignal WWII and simply mis-placed is the remaining question.

Thoughts.

Second rifle is another Ukraine Capture, but this one has a ZF41 Stock and ZF41 rear sight rail. AR42.
All one needs is the ZF41 scope and mount (originals and reproductions available) and one has a Sniper or Sniper clone.

Thoughts
Click to expand...



The Kicker with any RC K98 is they are Refurbished, Black Dip (Dipity-Doo-Dah) Finish and Mismatched, and is reflected by their low price on the
food chain compared to Yugo, Norwegian, East German, Original.
The only thing that matches is the barrel and receiver, so really it's just a barreled receiver with a mismatched bolt.
It's only worth the sum of the parts. Some people are really into RC. Some people arn't into RC and pass. And for some people, RC is just a place holder until something better comes along. And some just shoot their "Shooter Grade" RC's which is what they were meant for.

IO Inc. was selling RC K98 Zf41 recently for $700.
The repro scope and mount sells for as much as the rifle at Numrich. Might need BATF Import/Export Paperwork?

The History is interesting on either one, and they are both nice, but at the end of the day they are what they are once the Russians (Ivan) got their hands on them to do the refurb. Either one may bring a small premium, but in reality you don't want to spend too much or get caught up in the Hype, Frenzy and Risk or (Worse Case) Burnt by possible SS Fakery??? as obtaining an untouched example would be more desireable once authenticated.
 
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agentcq said:
Funny JP jumped in, I bought the zf41 from PS about four years ago for $900.
I found a bolt mis-match zf41 and decided that I probably don't need two around.

As per the SS guns. There are various recognized versions of SS rifles.
1. Gew98 Reconditioned Guns (often marked with deaths head or zssa eagle)
2. SS Snipers (usually marked deaths head or zssa eagle)
3. bnz 44 (SS slave labour contract rifle, no letter suffix)
4. bnz 42, 43, 4 Contract rifles (SS slave labour contract rifles, usually no letter suffix)
5. Single Rune bnz rifles (SS slave labour contract rifles, usually no letter suffix)
6. G24T's converted Czech rifles, often used by the SS

The SS had to draw weapons from the Wehrmacht, which had a distaste and distrust of the SS. It was the dream of Himmler to have his own supply of weapons. He tried to achieve this by converting Gew 98's, and by trying to set up his own satellite camps or factories which could draw weapons away from Wehrmacht production. These were simply assembly factories. Neunegamme was used for AC (Walther) G/K43 production and Styer used satellite camps to assemble rifles ear marked for the SS. They are often lack many of the waffen amts and acceptance marks of Heer rifles and once diverted at the front to Wehrmacht units at times caused extensive grief. In general they were Styer made parts, assembled under SS slave labour and supervision with the hopes of being delivered to the SS as they did not fall under the proper distribution of the Wehrmacht.

Someone was nice enough to host pics of the bnz43 and of my bnz4. I still need to get pics of the zf41.

I shared this info with the authors of the book "Kriegsmodell" and host of the www.k98kforum.com which is quickly becoming the front line website for K98 research.
The authors agreed that the bnz 4 is a confirmed Single Rune rifle and was added to their serial number list. Interesting enough, it had a contracted dot barrel (Bruno managers also had SS connections). The bnz 43 is a confirmed SS contract rifle, but a uncertain Single Rune rifle due to the placement. The rune itself looks good, but the placement is off. The most interesting thing about this rifle is it is the only bnz 43 known in exisitance with a contracted dou barrel. If it didn't have the classic Styer serial numbers matching the reciever it would more than likely be a replacement barrel, but the authors confirmed that it was legit and were quite excited about the new Bruno/SS connection which became more identifiable to their research.
Click to expand...

Does it have the Coles Import mark stamped on the receiver? Or CAI Vermont USA?

Was it costly to Import in to Canada on the SS K98 and how long did it take? Did you just get this SS K98 and are now selling it?
 
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Both SS rifles were originally from Coles Dist, import mark lighlty marked on barrel (hardly noticable) matching pair from one collector. Took almost a year and about $300 to import. The ZF41 I got in Canada from PS Militaria.

I paid each of the above rifles than a standard RC K98. You are right, the original parts are the reciever, rear sight base and barrel, the rest are WWII parts forced matched. However, it is the reciever, barrels and rear sight base that make these rifles unique so I was willing to spend a little more.

I was able to find a bolt MM zf41 (reason I am going to sell my RC) but I haven't found any all matching or MM SS contract rifles/Single Rune rifles in Canada.
 
the X indicates that the rifle has been imported into US, in the past US required foreign surplus rifles to be stamped X but not anymore some of the matching rifles were stamped on the stock near the sling whole where its not visible when sling is intact
 
deagle2008 said:
the X indicates that the rifle has been imported into US, in the past US required foreign surplus rifles to be stamped X but not anymore some of the matching rifles were stamped on the stock near the sling whole where its not visible when sling is intact
Click to expand...

The X on the receiver indicates Russian Capture rework done postwar.
 
ohh lol i just remembered something:(/ yes i was wrong about the X:redface: i was talking about something eels lol i remember now that the American's had to stamp the barrel with the guns origin and caliber i got a lil confused here sorry
Coyote Ugly said:
The X on the receiver indicates Russian Capture rework done postwar.
Click to expand...
 
granite said:
Here is a pic of the marking on mine, only one I have seen in Canada - it is a bnz 43 rifle. It has an old "Germany" import mark.

sszza4.jpg
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Awesome SS rifle. I have seen them in the US with your markings but not in Canada. The eventually moved to the single rune or no markings at all.
I don't think having an SS marked rifle would be an asset if ever captured by the Russians.
 
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