Kent Ammo : Soft Primers?

the spank

the spank

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So two fellows I shoot trap with were having issues the other evening with a few of their shells. They were discovering the primers on a few of the empty hulls had been hole punched, the firing pins had gone completely through the primer. Upon inspection both discovered damage to their firing pins in the form of scratches and gouges on the ends. Both are firing the exact same brand and model of gun and have never had an issue using other brands of ammo. One blamed the ammo, the other blamed the gun. The one who blamed the gun spoke with someone at the factory in Italy and was told that the firing pins are adjusted for use with Fiocchi ammunition and need to be readjusted for American ammunition. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Firing pins needing adjustment or even being adjusted?
 
P.S. As a note of interest I shoot the same brand of gun in a different model and had issues with Kents in my gun as well but a completely different issue and no damage to my gun. I simply traded off the rest of the flat I hadnt used for some Winchesters and kept on shooting without another issue all season.
 
Adjusting firing pins to accommodate a certain brand of shells is a new one on me. I'm not even sure how a firing pin could be "readjusted." :confused:

Kent shells are made with Cheddite primers as are other brands including Challenger and, historically at least, some of the Winchester promo loads. I've shot over 100,000 Challengers and Kents. Rarely do I notice a pierced primer and the two guns I've shot most, a P-gun and a Beretta 391, are still on their original firing pins.
 
I spoke with a friend today, a very knowledgeable gunsmith about this problem and he had some interesting things to tell me. He chuckled about the "adjustment" of the pins. He said adjustment is the wrong term. He said what they mean is "fitting" the pins. There are no adjustments in a firing pin but rather they must be ground and honed to the proper length so they do not protrude too far past the breech face. He said they should not exceed sixty thousands of an inch or about 1/16" past the breech face. He said he has taken pins right down to as low as ten thousands and they work perfectly.
Next he said he had no experience with Kent ammo but years back ran into issues with ammo loaded with cheddite primers. He said the cheddite primer cup is actually harder not softer and pins that exceed sixty thousands protrusion fracture the primer cup causing a leak sending hot gases rearward and damaging the pins. He said eventually from continued use the pins get gouged and scratched causing them to eventually tear through the primer cup. Once that happens extreme amounts of burned gases are blown back through the pin holes eventually causing the pin holes to elongate and also weakening the breech face. He said you have seen the pictures of concaved receiver faces with elongated pinholes? I said yes. He said that is the eventual result if they continue to use the gun without removing those pins and honing the scratches and gouges out plus removing some excess length to shorten the pin strike.
He said if your friends really want to see for their own amusement what is taking place take the gun outside in the pitch dark of night and fire it. He said they will see flames shoot out all around the receiver sides. He said if the pins are proper length you will not see that happen as there are no gases escaping rearward from a fractured or torn primer.
 
Lower barrel on a Browning O/U by any chance? Although, for the record, I've seen some Krieghoffs do it as well. Kent, like a lot of european manufacturers use cheddite primers and their hulls, as wel,l in alot of cases. Some O/U's don't play nice with them. Flip side of that coin, my Akkar had no issues in either barrel with them, nor do any of my slide actions to date, as a result I've had no reason to avoid using them in reloads or factory ammo that uses them.
 
the spank said:
I spoke with a friend today, a very knowledgeable gunsmith about this problem and he had some interesting things to tell me. He chuckled about the "adjustment" of the pins. He said adjustment is the wrong term. He said what they mean is "fitting" the pins. There are no adjustments in a firing pin but rather they must be ground and honed to the proper length so they do not protrude too far past the breech face. He said they should not exceed sixty thousands of an inch or about 1/16" past the breech face. He said he has taken pins right down to as low as ten thousands and they work perfectly.
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That makes sense. Fitting a firing pin for length isn't unusual.

If the gun is regularly piercing primers then the pins should be reprofiled. I might have one or two pierced Cheddite primers a year out of 5-10 thousand so don't worry about it. Even if your pins are properly fitted it is possible to pierce the odd one if the primer isn't properly seated.
 
Maritime Storm said:
Lower barrel on a Browning O/U by any chance? Although, for the record, I've seen some Krieghoffs do it as well. Kent, like a lot of european manufacturers use cheddite primers and their hulls, as wel,l in alot of cases. Some O/U's don't play nice with them. Flip side of that coin, my Akkar had no issues in either barrel with them, nor do any of my slide actions to date, as a result I've had no reason to avoid using them in reloads or factory ammo that uses them.
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Both barrels on a pair of Rizzini's. Both guns were purchased new last summer as was mine and have about 3000 rds fired to date. Mine had 1100 rds at seasons end and I traded it on another of the same model but in a trap combo which I am awaiting delivery of.
As I relayed I had some issues with Kent in my Rizzini but a different issue altogether. It was a simple fix for me. It was the first time I tried Kent ammo. Shot 50 pair of doubles at an ATA shoot. I traded the other 6 boxes of ammo for Winchesters and continued the season with Federals and Winchesters without another issue.
 
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Claybuster said:
That makes sense. Fitting a firing pin for length isn't unusual.

If the gun is regularly piercing primers then the pins should be reprofiled. I might have one or two pierced Cheddite primers a year out of 5-10 thousand so don't worry about it. Even if your pins are properly fitted it is possible to pierce the odd one if the primer isn't properly seated.
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That is exactly what my gunsmith buddy said. The both guns are headed to the warranty centre in QC to be repaired as they are under warranty still. The factory tech in Italy sent an email stating that the pins are "adjusted" at the factory for use with Fiocchi ammunition and will require "adjustment" aka reprofiling for use with American ammunition. :confused: My buddies are experiencing multiple primer piercings in each box of ammo fired so they need to have their guns corrected immediately before major problems arise from continued use.

As a note of interest all three of us tried the same loading. The Kent 24 gram international trap load.
 
I have shot Fiocchi shotshells only once and it would be at least 25 years ago. I shot 100 rounds on the skeet field. When I was finished it took me over an hour to remove all the plastic from the chambers and barrels. My barrels were littered with plastic strings 1/4"-3/8" in length hanging from them. I never bought Fiocchi again after that experience. I guess I will just stick to domestic brands l
 
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the spank said:
I have shot Fiocchi shotshells only once and it would be at least 25 years ago. I shot 100 rounds on the skeet field. When I was finished it took me over an hour to remove all the plastic from the chambers and barrels. My barrels were littered with plastic strings 1/4"-3/8" in length hanging from them. I never bought Fiocchi again after that experience. I guess I will just stick to domestic brands l
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I shoot a lot of 28 gauge Fiocchi, and I have had no issues other than probably five hard primers in around 5000 rounds. One flat had three, which had me questions my gun, but I have used Challengers and Federal since with no issues.
 
There have been several threads about the piercing of Cheddite primers in (particularly) the lower barrels of O/U's. I've has it happenned on two of my guns - problem was solved with a re-radius of the pin. The oblique angle of the firing pin on the lower barrel tends to dent the primer near the edge of the primer, causing problems. In many cases, the primer has pierced slightly, without notice to the shooter. Unfortunately, over the long term, this can cause firing pin erosion.
 
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