L.C. Smith Ideal Grade ~1926

[th3gru3]

I have recently been given an L.C. Smith SxS shotgun by a family member wanting to get rid of it in advance of the end of Alberta's amnesty program. I have done a fair bit of research and have determined that it is an Ideal Grade 12 gauge with extractors, two triggers, serial range 88### (according to lcsmith.org, this indicates a 1926 vintage). 2004 Blue Book value seems to range between 500-1500 USD (10%-100%).

I have a few questions for anyone who is familiar with these shotguns, or even metal finishes/conditions in general. Please bear with me, as my knowledge of shotguns is brand new, as is my awareness of any firearms as old as this one!

Generally the metal is in good shape, some wear and very slight pitting in handled locations. The metal in these areas is nearly bright (ie. bare steel) but has no rust. In other areas, like the engraved sides just aft of the breech, the steel finish (blueing?) is very very dark, almost black. I have tried cleaning with a normal amount of pressure but the surface color remains uniform and intact.

What puzzles me is that many comparable L.C. Smith guns I have seen online (usually in better general condition) have a bare steel finish, often with crazy rainbow discoloration, which apparently (some ads claim) is the original factory finish. Is this true? Would my situation be indicative of someone having re-blued the gun at some point?

My last question involves the barrel - a few inches inside from the breech, there appears to be fairly heavy scoring/pitting which extends for an inch or two down the interior, at which point it stops entirely and the remaining interior finish is smooth. Is this normal?

I will be posting pictures later if anyone is interested.

My questions are mainly just for curiousity - I realize my best course of action will be to have the shotgun professionally inspected and appraised, but I appreciate any answers you can give me. Can anyone recommend someone to do an appraisal in the Calgary area?

Thanks a lot!

 

[beretta boy]

That "crazy rainbow" ( case colour hardening of the frame and opening lever) finish is for the most part, what a good part of the percentage value the guns worth is based on. . The more of the original case colours that remain, the higher the value. The dark marks you are seeing down the bore are very likely the forcing cones, just ahead of the chambers ... they do often look "dark" ( many were not polished like the bore) ... but overall, the shotguns bore, forcing cones and chambers should not be pitted, rusted or corroded, and there should be no dings or bulges in the barrels.

100 percent condition ... means just the way it came out of the box when it was brand new ... not a mark, scuff or blemish anywhere. There is a very good photo of a 98 percent L.C. Smith in the current Blue Book of Gun Values ... and even though it is with the original box, it does have enough
"owner wear" (barely visible) on it from assembly/reassembly and handling over the years to knock it down 2 percent. Any gun that has most or all of the case colours gone, other handling wear and surface pitting ... by description alone, would seem to suggest maybe 50 percent conditon. With the older American doubles, condition is everything, but the Parkers, A.H.Foxes, Lefevers & Smiths are the ones everyone seems to want, particularly in higher grades and good to excellent condition.

The Elsies are good solid guns, and the Ideal Grade is a notch above field grade. From your description, provided all else is original and in good condition, perhaps $ 750 t0 $ 1000.

 

[th3gru3]

Thanks for your response, very interesting.

Would it be possible to remove the bluing/dark finish in order to reveal the case hardening underneath, or would such a process destroy/damage the original finish? Is there any benefit to doing this or would I be lowering the value of the gun?

 

[Sharptail]

Th3gru3, Elsies are fine guns and America's only true sidelock. The Ideal grade filled the need for a gun with ornamentation at a price near that of field grade. Dyed - in - the - wool Smith collectors consider the Ideal to be the "ugly duckling" of the lineup, but the guns were (and are) popular.

The dark finish may be removed, but the bone charcoal case colour hardening will have to be redone. A limited number of companies and individuals can still do this work, but it can be done.

Pitting in front of the breech is common, but not a good thing. Clean it as thoroughly as possible, and if the pitting is not so deep as to cause safety concerns, then ignore it and shoot the gun.

Some Elsies have a nifty 3 position safety (centre position is "safe") and the ejector mechanism is unique. Do not pull the triggers on a disassembled gun without having a special wrench to reset the ejectors, or the gun will not go back together.

Smith collectors are as nutty as Parker or Fox collectors, so a wide world of info and opinions are available. It also means that the only guns that are truly collectable are those that are as close to new, and as high a grade as possible. A refinished Ideal grade is not a collector's item, so you may shoot the gun without a guilty conscience. With the right ammo they make a very good duck gun.

Sharptail