Lapua Scenar OTM vs. HPBT??? Whats the deal?

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K0na_stinky

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A friend and I recently noticed that the new Scenar bullets are now branded OTM and my 6.5mm 139gr are a completely different bullet.

Why was the change made? Why is the product number the same?

What’s the ballistic coefficients of the new OTM bullets? My friend with his .308 pushing a 155gr is getting about 1 MOA more drop at 500 yards about 2 MOA more drop at 925 yards with the new OTM’s and the same load.

Thanks!
 
Crashman said:
I got a bunch of the new 136 Scenars and they are a wonderfully accurate bullet, but they drop more than the 139 Scenar or the 142 Matrix in my rifle.
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http://forum.snipershide.com/range-...stics/172086-lapuas-new-136gr-6-5-scenar.html

I've been having similar results as PSinclair. They shoot faster flatter than the 139s I tried in both my 260s. They are extremely consistent. Some guys are pushing past 2900 with them. Couple people I talked to here didn't like them.

I have also been using 123s over 39.3 of Varget and it's been a great round in both my rifles.
 
peterdobson said:
OTM is new name for HPBT.

Peter
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The 6.5mm 139gr is visually different.

Has Lapua published the BC for the OTM bullets? On Lapuas site they say 0.290 G7 for the OTM and Litz says 0.285 for the HPBT.

Visually my guess would be the HPBT is more streamlined so it should have a higher BC I would think.

I guess I will have to check to see if the drops match the Ballistic Calc and go from there.

Picture007croped_zpsf68d6eb2.jpg


Left is the HPBT and right is the OTM.

To me it looks like the BT is longer and the tip of the bullet on the OTM is most definitely larger.
 
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I bought a couple of boxes of 139 OTM at Christmas they had the big open tips on them. Last box I picked up a few weeks ago has a smaller hollow point opening that the bthp had. Must be a lot to lot difference or Lapua was trying some thing new.

My 260 likes them.
 
K0na_stinky said:
A friend and I recently noticed that the new Scenar bullets are now branded OTM and my 6.5mm 139gr are a completely different bullet.

Why was the change made? Why is the product number the same?

What’s the ballistic coefficients of the new OTM bullets? My friend with his .308 pushing a 155gr is getting about 1 MOA more drop at 500 yards about 2 MOA more drop at 925 yards with the new OTM’s and the same load.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Its funny you posted this as I was wondering the same thing today. I have about 30 139 Scenar HPBT bullets left and just got a bunch of new 139's, they are the OTMs but same product number on the box as the HPBT's. The OTM's have an obvious larger meplat and don't appear to be as streamlined as the HPBT's, the ones I have anyway. Hope they shoot as good as the HPBT's. On Lapua's website their Scenars are now listed as OTM's. If its just a name change, the bullets are obviously different when compared side by side.
 
OTM and HPBT are the same thing, that's why the 6.5mm 139 grain bullets still have the same code, GB458. The GB545 6.5mm 136 is a new bullet design and all "L" bullets are made with new technology and reloading equipment. Go to Lapua site - products for BC info.

Any changes are due to various lot numbers and possibly new dies.

The new name OTM was conceived to attempt to avoid confusion with HPBT as some of the latter are designed for expansion and all Lapua HPBT, now OTM are not. I believe USA JAG was involved and various militaries around the world.

Regards,

Peter
 
What are the chances Hirsch is going to see any of the new Lapua 7mm 180 scenars? With the Berger supply being so unreliable, I have been dying to try those out. After that smoking deal I got on my Nightforce, it would just be another reason to buy from Peter!!
 
In general terms, "OTM" is used by ammo and militaries as a get out of jail card for using non FMJ bullets. Not sure when this will nip them in the butt but that is an entirely other can of worms.

If you look at the pic, OTM bullets will be designed to be more mag length friendly. In general, that means a longer bearing surface and a shorter, less pointy nose.

This is counter to the common LR match bullets which have shorter bearing surface and very long pointy noses.

BC in general favors the reg match bullets vs their OTM counterparts.

Berger has lots of info if you want to compare the dimensions and such.

As an upside, OTM bullets are usually easier to make accurate.

Jerry
 
Lets try to keep this thread on track here.

At this point I am looking for an accurate BC for the new bullets. At the moment I'm looking for the 6.5mm 139gr and the 30cal 155gr.

If anyone gets out shooting with the new bullet and find any differences in drop post them here.

Thanks.
 
Kona just shoot the 136 it's a better bullet. I gave you the link to Snipers Hide. There are a lot of guys shooting these in the States they are a great bullet. Don't be worried about the lower BC you can push them faster.
 
jugi16 said:
Kona just shoot the 136 it's a better bullet. I gave you the link to Snipers Hide. There are a lot of guys shooting these in the States they are a great bullet. Don't be worried about the lower BC you can push them faster.
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I have about 900 of the HPBT left. Its my girlfriend whos going through all this BS with the bullets changing.

Theres a local match coming up and were trying to get ready for it. But she has to deal with finding a load for a bullet that may or may not be the same in the next box.
 
Well hope it all works out man. All I can tell you is this....the listed BC is just a number it's usually an average. Don't wrap your head around it. Go out shoot at distance and get your DOPE from that, if she has 900 you'll be good to go. I don't care what lapua bullet you shoot they are all super consistent. What ever ballistics program you are running it won't matter, you can either fudge the MV or the BC. You can enter the same data in two different programs and you will get different results. They won't be off by much, but that should be a clue. The BC on the box is close but not the end result.

Hope this helps.
 
jugi16 said:
Well hope it all works out man. All I can tell you is this....the listed BC is just a number it's usually an average. Don't wrap your head around it. Go out shoot at distance and get your DOPE from that, if she has 900 you'll be good to go. I don't care what lapua bullet you shoot they are all super consistent. What ever ballistics program you are running it won't matter, you can either fudge the MV or the BC. You can enter the same data in two different programs and you will get different results. They won't be off by much, but that should be a clue. The BC on the box is close but not the end result.

Hope this helps.
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I've done all my load development with the HPBT and she has done all hers with the OTM. Were running out of time before the match so I'll order more OTM's for her and well see how they drop compared to the HPBT.

I use Bryan Litz's calc and use his BC's. With my CED M2 chrono for velocities I haven't had to fudge anything to get my drops to match the calc.

Its just a pain in the butt. It will be interesting to see what bullets come in the boxes this time.
 
I have now fired 700 of the new Lapua Scenar L 180gn 7mm bullets, These are wonderful and very consistent. I have compared them side by side with 180gn Berber 7mm Hybrids using a .284 bullets both shot at 2900 fps, the hybrids were sorted, trimmed and pointed. The drop at 300 yards was identical. I used the G3 BC for the Berger Hybrids when calculating drops to 1000Y for the Lapua OTM's, the calculated drop was within .75 moa of the actual measured drop at the range.

The L- series bullets undergo special production to ensure reproducibility, I am sure this will result in changes from the existing bullet manufactured the old way, and some of this will likely affect the BC, personally I would trade BC for reproducibility any day.

Since Lapua never made a match 7mm in the past there is no comparison, but I see that the 6.5mm bullets are now 120gn instead of 123 gn, I have these on order and I am sure they will not look identical to the old 123gn, but if the consistency is similar to what i have seen with the 7mm bullets I will not complain

My buddy and I recently assess the relationship between the ogive, and the distance to where the seating stem contact the bullet (For specific details seen Bob Green bullet comparator 'B.G.C. Bullet Comparitor') Using this to assess 3000 Berger 215gn 30 cal hybrids we found a range of 6 thou.

I performed the same analysis on the new Lapua 7mm 180gn OTM's, the range was 1.9 thou.
 
We got out shooting today with the 6.5mm 139gr OTM’s and the old HPBT’s.

My drops with the HPBT’s matched the ballistic calc perfectly out to 926 yards.

The OTM’s had ½ MOA more drop at 665 yards and 1 MOA more drop at 926.

I fudged the ballistic coefficient for the OTM’s until the numbers matched.

Bryan Litz gives the HPBT’s a G7 bc of 0.285. The bc I came up with for the OTM’s was 0.265. It seems to be fairly low but the drops matched the calc perfectly after that.

If anyone else finds anything post it here.
 
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