LB No.4 Mk1* front sight askew

SBranson23

SBranson23

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I just got a 1944 LongBranch No.4 Mk.1* in and the front sight is rotated slightly to the left. With the shroud on it's really noticeable and will no doubt mess up my aim.
Just to clarify, this is the part I am talking about:
image001.jpg


Before I knock the pin out and make a mess, can this be adjusted? It looks like the barrel is in straight, just that the sight is not on straight.

Edit: Looking again, it looks like maybe the barrel is screwed in too tightly to the receiver .?.
 
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I had one like that - the barrel was slightly askew, or off index. Mine was under-indexed - a relatively easy fix. Sounds like yours is over-indexed. This may or may not be correctable - if the fit can be "relaxed" a bit without losing too much headspace, and thread tension, then you are good to go.
 
When you look at the flat surface at the back of the barrel (the knox), can you see if it's way past dead center with respect to the receiver?

Lou
 
Lay the barreled action on a table and balance a couple of straight edges (ie a ruler), one across the flat of the barrel and one across the flat of the charger bridge or across the folded down rear sight. Look at it from behind and if it's out of index even 2 or 3 degrees it will plainly show.

It likely isn't too far over indexed, otherwise the extractor would not fit into it's slot. Provided it is in the slot OK, then it may simply be a matter of removing the barrel and re-indexing it. If it is loose at the proper point of index, then the face of the receiver can be ringpunched to build it up slightly, or a very thin breeching ring (shim) can be installed between the receiver and the barrel. You would be amazed at how much even a .002 shim makes in the indexing. A bit of loctite can also assist if the torque is borderline.

Ideally, the barrel should be indexed by placing levels on the flat of the (properly installed) front sight base, and on a dowel going through the rear sight base (rear sight removed of course). Using the flat of the barrel and the flat of the charger bridge normally bring acceptable results as well.
 
louthepou said:
When you look at the flat surface at the back of the barrel (the knox), can you see if it's way past dead center with respect to the receiver?

Lou
Click to expand...

This is difficult to see but I think it is a little over indexed. I will have to disassemble the rifle to do the following:

stencollector said:
Lay the barreled action on a table and balance a couple of straight edges (ie a ruler), one across the flat of the barrel and one across the flat of the charger bridge or across the folded down rear sight. Look at it from behind and if it's out of index even 2 or 3 degrees it will plainly show.

It likely isn't too far over indexed, otherwise the extractor would not fit into it's slot. Provided it is in the slot OK, then it may simply be a matter of removing the barrel and re-indexing it. If it is loose at the proper point of index, then the face of the receiver can be ringpunched to build it up slightly, or a very thin breeching ring (shim) can be installed between the receiver and the barrel. You would be amazed at how much even a .002 shim makes in the indexing. A bit of loctite can also assist if the torque is borderline.

Ideally, the barrel should be indexed by placing levels on the flat of the (properly installed) front sight base, and on a dowel going through the rear sight base (rear sight removed of course). Using the flat of the barrel and the flat of the charger bridge normally bring acceptable results as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies. I will wait for my headspace gauges to arrive in the mail before I try this.
Other than that, the bolt closes well.

cosmic said:
I had one like that ....
Click to expand...

So is this something that would've gone from the factory or is it likely from some later work? I guess one could work with the sight picture that way but it's annoying.
 
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SBranson23 said:
This is difficult to see but I think it is a little over indexed. I will have to disassemble the rifle to do the following:



Thanks for the replies. I will wait for my headspace gauges to arrive in the mail before I try this.
Other than that, the bolt closes well.



So is this something that would've gone from the factory or is it likely from some later work? I guess one could work with the sight picture that way but it's annoying.
Click to expand...

Very unlikely it would have come from the factory this way. More likely it has come from a basement part time gunsmith. Usual give away signs are things like pipe wrench/vice marks on the barrel around the flat, or a twisted receiver where a screwdriver was used through the receiver body to turn it.

It is hard to impossible to get a rifle to zero at all ranges with the sight canted very far over. In the cno7 Enfield manual, a canted barrel was a reason to backlog the rifle to third line repair.

By all means check your headspace, but the turning of the barrel a few degrees will have little effect on the overall headspacing.
 
Well - Some milsurps have index marks on the bottom of the receiver and barrel. I recall P-14's having them, dont know about LE's. Makes things easy if the rifle does have the marks. I suspect mine was rebarreled after it left the factory, probably when it was sporterized. Rifle had a #3 bolthead to compensate the short indexing.
 
Don't try doing the job yourself. Best to find a gunsmith who has a proper Enfield action wrench and barrel vice.
That 2 thou shim sounds about right under the circumstances.

I'd get it fixed if it was mine, I hate stuff being off like that.
 
cosmic said:
Well - Some milsurps have index marks on the bottom of the receiver and barrel...
Click to expand...

There doesn't seem to be any index marking.

cantom said:
Don't try doing the job yourself. Best to find a gunsmith who has a proper Enfield action wrench and barrel vice.
That 2 thou shim sounds about right under the circumstances.

I'd get it fixed if it was mine, I hate stuff being off like that.
Click to expand...


Anyone know a smith who can do this in the Victoria region?

I just bought this from a reputable supplier out east but I'm a little disappointed that it wasn't mentioned in the description. I'm tempted to try to return it and if it wasn't for the transfer business I likely would.
 
SBranson23 said:
There doesn't seem to be any index marking.




Anyone know a smith who can do this in the Victoria region?

I just bought this from a reputable supplier out east but I'm a little disappointed that it wasn't mentioned in the description. I'm tempted to try to return it and if it wasn't for the transfer business I likely would.
Click to expand...

The transfer thing is no big deal. One phone call...and free.
 
cantom said:
The transfer thing is no big deal. One phone call...and free.
Click to expand...

Yeah but it would involve dealing with likely a reluctant dealer...

Anyway, against sound advice I decide to try fixing it myself and the barrel will not move at all.

stencollector said:
Transfer is easy enough, but it's the disapointment and the postage that will both take their toll.

No 4s do not have index marks BTW.
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That's exactly right. I end up $50+ (considering the money order and it's postage) in the hole for nothing other than disappointment in what I though was a respected dealer.

I could never sell this without mentioning that... which would likely mean I could never sell it.

Any tips on unsticking a stuck barrel?
 
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SBranson23 said:
Yeah but it would involve dealing with likely a reluctant dealer...

Anyway, against sound advice I decide to try fixing it myself and the barrel will not move at all.



That's exactly right. I end up $50+ (considering the money order and it's postage) in the hole for nothing other than disappointment in what I though was a respected dealer.

I could never sell this without mentioning that... which would likely mean I could never sell it.

Any tips on unsticking a stuck barrel?
Click to expand...

YOU'RE GOING TO RUIN THE RECEIVER!
 
cantom said:
YOU'RE GOING TO RUIN THE RECEIVER!
Click to expand...

I was careful and short of a few marks on the barrel, no damage.

I wrote the dealer to mention my disappointment and though skeptical, he was very accommodating suggesting I return it for repair or if not repairable, exchange.
Now that I put a few marks in the barrel I imagine exchange is out but still I don't think I want to spend another $50+ on this rifle.
I'm just frustrated that it could be sold without the simple once over to see such an obvious mistake.

Thanks for the help and advice.
 
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Long Branch rifle barrels are normally quite tight. You require the proper tools to remove the barrel. The receiver wrench is available from Brownell's (will run you $100 or so) and the barrel vise can either be bought or made at home with a bit of workshop ingenuity. Some barrel vises simply clamp around the round portion of the barrel....this may not do on a long branch. I made mine tapered to fit the first 2" of the barrel, with a clamp (removeable plate bolted tight) on top to match the knoxform. Works 95% of the time, then you get a barrel that is exceptionally tight.
 
stencollector said:
Long Branch rifle barrels are normally quite tight. You require the proper tools to remove the barrel. The receiver wrench is available from Brownell's (will run you $100 or so) and the barrel vise can either be bought or made at home with a bit of workshop ingenuity. Some barrel vises simply clamp around the round portion of the barrel....this may not do on a long branch. I made mine tapered to fit the first 2" of the barrel, with a clamp (removeable plate bolted tight) on top to match the knoxform. Works 95% of the time, then you get a barrel that is exceptionally tight.
Click to expand...

I watched my gunsmith do this job. He has a custom made Lee Enfield action wrench that he made, it fits perfectly. He clamped the barrel in a barrel vice clamp with wood bushings, he tightens it with a giant wrench. Then he used an incredible amount of force to turn the barrel...
Peter Laidler gave the story of how the Brit Army did it, one thing is, they have a dummy bolt with no extractor on it, that is in the action when they remove or install a barrel. All of this is necessary to keep from twisting the action and trashing it. It really isn't a do it yourself job.
 
cantom said:
I watched my gunsmith do this job. He has a custom made Lee Enfield action wrench that he made, it fits perfectly. He clamped the barrel in a barrel vice clamp with wood bushings, he tightens it with a giant wrench. Then he used an incredible amount of force to turn the barrel...
Peter Laidler gave the story of how the Brit Army did it, one thing is, they have a dummy bolt with no extractor on it, that is in the action when they remove or install a barrel. All of this is necessary to keep from twisting the action and trashing it. It really isn't a do it yourself job.
Click to expand...

Ha... kinda wish I knew this before I tried. No real damage done other than a few cosmetic scratches on the barrel (now hidden by the wood) but I could've returned it for another rifle if I hadn't brazenly assumed it wouldn't be that difficult. Oh, well... lesson learned. Now I've gone this far I might just go ahead and get a wrench to do it properly. The rifle's a keeper now so I may as well try to fix it.:rolleyes:
 
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