LE No5 - To bed or not to bed?

RedRabbits

RedRabbits

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lately I've been tossing around the idea of bedding my Jungle Carbine due to the fact that I cannot accept that I can shoot my partners Winchester 3030 better. My rife is a matching numbers gun and is in very good shape aside from some loss of finish on the top of barrel. I'm hesitant to carry out this procedure because I fear it may ruin the rifles historic value, but on the other hand she was purchased to be shot. If you put the rifle between your legs and wiggle the muzzle with little force you can feel AND hear the receiver moving in the forestock. I have not been able to find a reliable source for the action screw torque specs but its tighter than hell and has not shoot itself loose. So I'd appreciate your opinions here folks, i'd don't want to be crucified for bubba'n an inaccurate but otherwise good looking and collectible rifle.
 
When you tightened the front trigger guard screw did it tighten up the trigger guard snugly to the wood? If not there is a little spacer collar inside the stock that may need to be shortened a little on a lathe to make the trigger guard screw pinch the stock there properly. Once it is tight there take a $5 bill and run it up under the barrel between the stock and the barrel. The barrel should not make contact with the wood until the barrel widens out at the Knox form.
 
I understand your issues.

I recently shot my M94 and got about an inch at 50 yards. With my eyes, that was impressive. It may be that the M94 is a more accurate rifle, so bedding the #5 might be overkill.

You did not say how well (or badly) the #5 groups. If you are sure it is a bedding issue, maybe just a tiny bit of compound on the draws and around the king screw would be tasteful and acceptable.
 
If you cant afford a lathe, use the chuck of a drill and a file (or emery cloth) to shorten the spacer.

Remove the spacer, snug the screw down and make a pencil mark on the guard where the head lines up. Count the rotations as well by backing the screw out until you hear a click, and then screwing in (back to the mark). This will show you how much your screw needs to be turned in. Shorten the spacer accordingly. It is very difficult to overtighten onto the spacer.
 
The forward trigger guard screw collar or bushing should be .010 "shorter" than the actual measurement using the stock collar gauge. The bushing or collar is used to prevent wood crush, and stocks that had over .010 wood crush were replaced due to problems with trigger adjustments.

This is why in the Canadian Enfield manuals you will see comments made about bending the trigger guard in the field and the manual stating "the armourer "MAY" need to correct this. There are no replacement stocks and some fore stocks have excess wood crush and the bushing needs to be shortened and the trigger guard will need to be bent.

In truth the bushing collar is not needed as you may think, but in order to make the forward trigger guard screw Gorilla tight and not crush the wood, and thus change trigger settings the bushing is used.

Just remember the more wood crush you have the more trigger guard downward angle (lower at the front) you will have and you reach a point where the trigger can not be adjusted by standard means. Meaning the trigger guard must be bent to get a decent trigger pull. See bedding portion of the Canadian No.4 manuals for competition and the shim plate that is added beneath the trigger guard.
 
bgcameron said:
If you cant afford a lathe, use the chuck of a drill and a file (or emery cloth) to shorten the spacer.

Remove the spacer, snug the screw down and make a pencil mark on the guard where the head lines up. Count the rotations as well by backing the screw out until you hear a click, and then screwing in (back to the mark). This will show you how much your screw needs to be turned in. Shorten the spacer accordingly. It is very difficult to overtighten onto the spacer.
Click to expand...

Or remove the bushing and tighten the king screw or forward trigger guard screw and mark the screw slot locations on the bottom of the trigger guard when tight. Now slowly keep shortening the bushing collar until the pencil marks on the trigger guard are aligned with the slot in the screw head.

The bushing/collar has more to do with wood crush and trigger adjustment than anything else and is why on later Enfields they hung the trigger from the receiver.

NOTE: The No.5 Enfield rifle has a free floating barrel and the bedding at the draws area is not as critical because this was used to control up pressure at the fore end tip on the No.4 rifles. The manual states you can have .010 clearance at the rear of the No.5 fore stock and the receiver ring. Meaning draws area tightness is not critical.
 
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Thats what I was trying to say. I knew it wouldnt make sense! I've been up since early (yawn)
bigedp51 said:
Or remove the bushing and tighten the king screw or forward trigger guard screw and mark the screw slot locations on the bottom of the trigger guard when tight. Now slowly keep shortening the bushing collar until the pencil marks on the trigger guard are aligned with the slot in the screw head.

The bushing/collar has more to do with wood crush and trigger adjustment than anything else and is why on later Enfields they hung the trigger from the receiver.

NOTE: The No.5 Enfield rifle has a free floating barrel and the bedding at the draws area is not as critical because this was used to control up pressure at the fore end tip on the No.4 rifles. The manual states you can have .010 clearance at the rear of the No.5 fore stock and the receiver ring. Meaning draws area tightness is not critical.
Click to expand...
 
Ganderite said:
I understand your issues.

I recently shot my M94 and got about an inch at 50 yards. With my eyes, that was impressive. It may be that the M94 is a more accurate rifle, so bedding the #5 might be overkill.

You did not say how well (or badly) the #5 groups. If you are sure it is a bedding issue, maybe just a tiny bit of compound on the draws and around the king screw would be tasteful and acceptable.
Click to expand...

I use my No5 for bush duty and it has never been on the line at the range for a formal accuracy assessment. I can score offhand hits on 12" steel at about 100yds out most of the time compared to the Model 94 and my SKS in which hits are pretty much a guarantee with inferior sights. I just figured that if my Enfield's receiver can move independently in the stock a bedding job is in order.
 
bgcameron said:
Thats what I was trying to say. I knew it wouldnt make sense! I've been up since early (yawn)
Click to expand...

You were repeating what the senior armourer in the U.K. Peter Laidler stated about the bushing/collar and its adjustment as he was trained to do in the British military and it did make sense. I just wrote my posting in American English hoping it was more clear, also if your bushing/collar is over one screw rotation off then bubba was messing with your Enfield long before you got your hands on it. By counting the screw rotations with the fore stock off the armourer would know if he had a out of spec bushing/collar. "WE" will 99 times out of 100, will use the same bushing/collar and just make it a few thousandths shorter and counting screw rotations is meaningless.

Mr. Laidler and I had several conversations over how the Canadian manuals were written and how the British Enfield manuals were written. Bottom line, when your keeping the Enfield rifle going for your Canadian Rangers new rules are written when new parts can no longer be found for a old rifle.
 
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I have nothing helpful to add for the OP, but I wanted to say thanks to biged for confirming my suspicions about that trigger bushing. Thanks
 
I wouldn't expect gilt edged accuracy from a No5. I've owned one for the past 50 yrs and have used it extensively for hunting in the bush where ranges are on the short side. Mine was in as new condition when I got it in 1962 for $18. I had it D&T for a Weaver TO1 mount, installed a Bishop butt with monte carlo comb, and have had several scopes on it, incl a Redfield 23/4X Widefield for the past 30 yrs. With handloads the rifle will group 2-3 " off the bench @ 100 yds. It has gotten me a lot of game incl whitetails, mulies, moose and a nice cinammon colored black bear. It is a great hunting rifle in the bush using a 174/180gr round nose bullet-light, handy, and accurate enough. I found it ideal for hunting in the heavy timber in NB where the trick was to build spruce blinds and watch the trails. Some shots came a little beyond bayonet range and caused me to lighten my handloads a bit.
 
RedRabbits said:
LE No5 - To bed or not to bed?

lately I've been tossing around the idea of bedding my Jungle Carbine due to the fact that I cannot accept that I can shoot my partner's Winchester 3030 better. My rife is a matching numbers gun and is in very good shape aside from some loss of finish on the top of barrel. I'm hesitant to carry out this procedure because I fear it may ruin the rifles historic value, but on the other hand she was purchased to be shot. If you put the rifle between your legs and wiggle the muzzle with little force you can feel AND hear the receiver moving in the forestock. I have not been able to find a reliable source for the action screw torque specs but its tighter than hell and has not shoot itself loose. So I'd appreciate your opinions here folks, i'd don't want to be crucified for bubba'n an inaccurate but otherwise good looking and collectible rifle.
Click to expand...

So much found humour in the OP. All it needs are a few gratuitous mentions of butts and screws, and it will be complete.

(As far as your rifle goes, if the receiver is moving in the stock then something is wrong. A few cardboard shims under the foreend tip might settle it down by changing the subtle geometry.)
 
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If you can hear and feel the barrel moving after the guard screw has been tightened down you might check for a high spot or contact point in the forend wood where the barrel might be in hard contact with the wood, especially along the sides of the chamber area. If this condition exists it should be readily evident in the wood. It is then just a matter of sanding down the high spot.
 
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