Lee Data... WTF?!!

Infantry-Soldier

Infantry-Soldier

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So I'm trying to load some .45 rounds... This is my first attempt at loading for Pistol.


My set up is a lee anniversary set... So Lee press, safety scale, powder measure, etc...

I'm trying to load a 230gr FMJ Round Nose.
I'm using HS6 powder.



So in the ol' 2nd edition lee manual, for a 230gr copper jacketed bullet, using HS6 it says 8 grains.

It also says .5 size lee dipper. It says the cc volume for 8 grains of HS6 is .57cc


So here's where I'm running into trouble... I zero'd my scale, everything's good. I set it to 8 grains, and throw a .5 dipper full on it. It doesn't weigh 8 grains. It weighs less (around 7.5)

I then went and set my powder measure to .57cc. That doesn't weigh 8 grains either!


So I just read in the back of my lee manual as I was typing this that for the dipper, it says that the dipper may dispense less then the starting charge, but it is still an acceptable charge....

So here's what has got me thinking...

Can I just go to town with the dipper charge? even though it's a half grain off their printed starting charge? Or do I mess around w/ my powder measure untill I find the point where it measures out 8 grains? Their published NEVER EXCEED is only 8.2 grains, so this only gives me .2gr to work with... I don't feel like blowing up my gun..,.

I found when reloading rifle rounds, I would have to set the "perfect" powder measure to more then the CC data said, until it would dispense the proper weight.


As I'm trying to load about 500 .45 rounds, the dipper would be the fastest method for me at this point in time.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated!

If anything I said doesn't make sense, please ask for me to clarify it.


This lee dipper thing is confusing... Its saying, for the various .45 bullet weights, that the .5 dipper is good for 7.5gr, 8.0, and 8.2gr.... Like wtf?!


I think in the future I'm going to scrap my lee set up and invest in something a little more serious... ***Frustrated***
 
I haven't used the dippers much, but I always understood that the method was approximate and the data they provide very cautious.

Density of a powder can vary lot to lot. So can burn rate. So, the dippers are sized so that an unusually dense lot burning unusually fast will still be safe, even if the user has an unusually heavy dipping style.

In normal use they will always be light. C'est la vie, it's good enough for plinking, especially with handguns.
 
Does the lee anniversary kit come with the powder dispenser? Mine did. Mine is very reliable, very consistant. If you have one, use it instead. Just to be safe, I weigh every ten rounds or so.
 
Yea it does....

Mine isn't accurate. I have to keep tweeking it until I find the correct weight. And yes, I check it against the scale every 10 rounds or so. Once I find where it's dispensing the correct weight, it's accurate. (ie has to be set at 3cc to dispense 2.6cc, etc...)
 
Why are we measuring in CCs? I don't believe there is a place for using dippers to measure small amounts of smokeless powders, esp. in cc's. If you have to use this method, I'd suggest they you weigh every charge and use a powder trickler to bring it up to snuff.
 
If you are consistently measuring 7.5 grains with the dipper then use it. This is just safe for lee to give less then more powder in the charge. If the load shoots well then you have no issues but really you need to use the disk measure or other type of measure where you can adjust loads and see what works well.
 
Well I did about 5 with the dipper, then remembered that I just got a auto disk powder measure from a buddy!
So I busted that out, read how to use it, and wow! So easy! And it weighs in perfectly.


I guess I'll be using that from now on! Plus it saves some time by charging through the expander die.


Thanks for the help! Probably should have just remembered I had this from the start!
 
Infantry-Soldier said:
Yea it does....

Mine isn't accurate. I have to keep tweeking it until I find the correct weight. And yes, I check it against the scale every 10 rounds or so. Once I find where it's dispensing the correct weight, it's accurate. (ie has to be set at 3cc to dispense 2.6cc, etc...)
Click to expand...




The dispenser relies on very fluid movements from the operator to be reliably accurate (at least for me, anyways... :cool:)
 
I think he means that the volumetric scale doesn't match what the load chart says for volume/weight conversions.

I too found that with my Lee scale, and had to simply dial it up, weighing each charge until it was throwing what I wanted.
 
Ive used the LEE auto discs for years,and have found them to be very accurate and consistent,especially with a fine powder like HS6.They do however,always throw less than what is advertised by LEE.Probably a safety thing,and no real problem if you are checking with a scale(which you should do anyway).Once youve found a cavity that throws what you want,its nice to know that it wont change,be bumped off etc
 
Get rid of the scale, it's a pain to zero and keep zeroed. Get yourself a good compact digital scale. I picked up a Frankford Arsenal Micro Reloading Scale from Cabela's ( SIR ) for $40. It's accurate, easy to use, and comes with check weights. The powder measure I found was very accurate. It meters Ball powder like Winchester 231 to 0.1 gr. everytime. HS-6 is a double base ball powder so it should throw charges consistantly as well.
 
there's nothing wrong with a beam balance scale- the dippers are what is the problem- i use an adjustable charge bar( not lee) and have for over 30 years- i use nothing but 231 and 6 grains under a 200 grain bullet- it's an old bowling pin load- no matter whether you use cavities or the dipper system, you're always going to get some "varainces", esp on the light side- i've always found lee's recipes to be a little on the mild side, i use what's in speer no 11
 
I do test batches for my pistol like I do for my rifle. I work up a ladder test.

Once I find the good load I usually make a dipp for it (using a fired case and solder and a piece of copper wire).

I then load up about 50 -100 of those and if they work good I transfer that over to the progressive for "volume" loading.

No KB's yet (knock, knock)

Cheers!
 
The issue you have to understand here is that each gunpowder structure is different (some are extruded, some disc shaped, some are small grains or flakes) and each powder flows through the powder measure differently. The LEE manual is giving you the best starting gauge for the auto prime. But you still need to experiment with them (going up or down in size) to find the one that throws a consistent amount of powder in each load. Sometimes I have gone up two or three sizes from the starting recommendation to get the right throw.

It is a trial and error excersize. That is what makes it fun!!
 
Infantry-Soldier said:
Yea it does....

Mine isn't accurate. I have to keep tweeking it until I find the correct weight. And yes, I check it against the scale every 10 rounds or so. Once I find where it's dispensing the correct weight, it's accurate. (ie has to be set at 3cc to dispense 2.6cc, etc...)
Click to expand...



I contacted LEE about this, and they said that's normal - volume can change by up to 15% from batch-to-batch of powder, hence the anomaly. Mine reads a a bit higher than actually dispensed, just like yours.


Make sure to use your Safety Scale that came with the kit! Also, make sure it reads about zero with nothing in the pan... Don't ask how I know this. :redface:



Breaker61 said:
Get rid of the scale, it's a pain to zero and keep zeroed. Get yourself a good compact digital scale. I picked up a Frankford Arsenal Micro Reloading Scale from Cabela's ( SIR ) for $40. It's accurate, easy to use, and comes with check weights. The powder measure I found was very accurate. It meters Ball powder like Winchester 231 to 0.1 gr. everytime. HS-6 is a double base ball powder so it should throw charges consistantly as well.
Click to expand...

Now, getting rid of the Safety Scale... No. If it's properly set at zero, it'll make sure your digital scale is always within spec. I have the MTM one, and it too, is within +/-0.1 grains. The digital scale really speeds things up when I'm making batch loads.
 
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