I was re-arranging the gun safe yesterday and I just remembered something about my Lee Enfield I have been meaning to ask. The stock rattles against the barrel, is this normal or is it something I need to fix? I have owned it for 26 years but since the cheap .303 from Yugoslavia disappeared with their civil war I have not shot it very much so hopefully if it something that needs to be fixed there won't be too much wear.
Lee Enfeild stock question.
- Thread starter Ironers
- Start date
Start by seeing if the front trigger guard screw is loose. If it is, tighten it, not ridiculously tight though. See if that makes the forend push upward on the barrel at the muzzle.
If the screw is tight, and the forend is not pushing on the barrel, the forend has lost its "spring" effect. Not the end of the world but, if you decide to fix this, it requires a bit of know-how, there are some tricks to fix this (most of the time).
Lou
If the screw is tight, and the forend is not pushing on the barrel, the forend has lost its "spring" effect. Not the end of the world but, if you decide to fix this, it requires a bit of know-how, there are some tricks to fix this (most of the time).
Lou
It is not that important if you are just banging it off once in a while. The best bet is to take it to a range and see how accurate it is. If it meets your needs, then leave it. It is not a quick fix and can get a bit involved.
What part of the stock is rattling? Wood can shrink a bit as it dries out. In service, the stocks would be treated with linseed oil, even removed by armourers and soaked in it periodically to counter this. But if it's just the upper handguards it may be not bad enough to affecting the performance. Start by following the suggestion from points at post #5.
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Its the end of the stock before the sight. I just wanted to make sure it was just a minor issue and not something really bad.
There are a lot of things it can be.
For starters...remove all of the bands and wood. Soak the complete wood set in Boiled Linseed Oil with successive coats, not neglecting down insider the draws area at the rear of the forend.
Not letting it dry, but rubbing it out with a cloth and polishing it by hand each time.
The King Screw should have a lockwasher under the head. Under the trigger guard there should be a tubular bushing that goes into the hole in the forend..
If the bushing is too long, the forend will rattle loose. So try putting it together without the bushing and tighten down the king screw. Does the forend still rattle loose?
Is the forend cracked at the draws area?
For starters...remove all of the bands and wood. Soak the complete wood set in Boiled Linseed Oil with successive coats, not neglecting down insider the draws area at the rear of the forend.
Not letting it dry, but rubbing it out with a cloth and polishing it by hand each time.
The King Screw should have a lockwasher under the head. Under the trigger guard there should be a tubular bushing that goes into the hole in the forend..
If the bushing is too long, the forend will rattle loose. So try putting it together without the bushing and tighten down the king screw. Does the forend still rattle loose?
Is the forend cracked at the draws area?
Assume you have a No 4 Mk 1 or Mk 1* ? The forend should have some up-pressure on the barrel (about 4-5 lbs I think) , as others mantioned , but if it is a No 1 Mk III there is a middle band with a spring under the screw, and a spring-loaded stud part inside the nosecap that bears on the underside and pushes the barrel up. If parts are missing, it could rattle, but you'd have to take it apart to verify.
The No.4 Enfield is to have 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip, meaning the fore stock pushing upward on the barrel. The "up pressure" was how the rifle was "tuned" to issued military ammunition and regulate the group size at 100 yards.
Up until Dunkirk the Enfield rifles were completely torn down for their yearly inspection. At this time the dissembled wood furniture would the placed in a hot tank of "raw linseed oil"and allowed to soak overnight. After Dunkirk the troops were issued raw linseed oil and the stocks were to be oiled monthly. It was at this time the metal parts below the wood were painted and the rifles were only dissembled as needed. (if it ain't broke don't fix it)
The reason the stock rattles or makes noise is the wood is as dry as a popcorn fart. Meaning the stock needs oiled badly with raw linseed oil, also the military never used boiled linseed oil. You want the raw linseed oil to soak as deeply into the wood as possible and make the wood swell to its original size. If boiled linseed oil had been used in the heated tanks it would have turned to the consistency of Jello when exposed to air. The raw linseed oil is not a wood surface treatment, it is meant to soak deeply into the wood and prevent the wood for drying out.
You can mix the raw linseed oil 50/50 with turpentine and let the wood soak in a wallpaper wetting tray for a day or two. If the stock is still loose and does not have the required up pressure the fore stock will need to be shimmed in the draws area.
NOTE: The British when the fore stock had .010 wood crush below the receiver and above the trigger guard would discard the stock. Because they are no longer making fore stocks this wood crush could be corrected for by bending the trigger guard to get the correct angle to adjust the trigger pull. This is why the later Enfield rifles had the trigger hung from the action and trigger pull not be effected by the wood swelling or shrinking.
Up until Dunkirk the Enfield rifles were completely torn down for their yearly inspection. At this time the dissembled wood furniture would the placed in a hot tank of "raw linseed oil"and allowed to soak overnight. After Dunkirk the troops were issued raw linseed oil and the stocks were to be oiled monthly. It was at this time the metal parts below the wood were painted and the rifles were only dissembled as needed. (if it ain't broke don't fix it)
The reason the stock rattles or makes noise is the wood is as dry as a popcorn fart. Meaning the stock needs oiled badly with raw linseed oil, also the military never used boiled linseed oil. You want the raw linseed oil to soak as deeply into the wood as possible and make the wood swell to its original size. If boiled linseed oil had been used in the heated tanks it would have turned to the consistency of Jello when exposed to air. The raw linseed oil is not a wood surface treatment, it is meant to soak deeply into the wood and prevent the wood for drying out.
You can mix the raw linseed oil 50/50 with turpentine and let the wood soak in a wallpaper wetting tray for a day or two. If the stock is still loose and does not have the required up pressure the fore stock will need to be shimmed in the draws area.
NOTE: The British when the fore stock had .010 wood crush below the receiver and above the trigger guard would discard the stock. Because they are no longer making fore stocks this wood crush could be corrected for by bending the trigger guard to get the correct angle to adjust the trigger pull. This is why the later Enfield rifles had the trigger hung from the action and trigger pull not be effected by the wood swelling or shrinking.
OP, the information you give on your particular rifle isn't specific enough. The general rule of thumb is 5-7 pounds of upward pressure on the barrel created by the tip of the fore arm. If the rifle is a No1 there should be a spring/plunger arrangement about the middle of the fore end to do the job.
If your fore stock is loose you should take it off and check under the king screw (front of trigger guard) to make sure the spacer is still there. The spacer stops the wood in that area from being compressed and creating just the problem you mention. It also helps to keep even pressure on the ways where the receiver fits into the bedding and helps to keep the very narrow space needed between the fore stock and the butt socket flat. This is very important.
One other thing, not all No4 rifles shoot well with upward pressure on the barrel. That pressure is a cheap and easy method to correct minor bedding issues.
I have four No4 rifles that shoot extremely well. One is a No 4 MkI* Longbranch made in 1950 and another is a No4 MkII built by Pakistani Ordnance Factory. Both are in excellent condition inside and out. Both have fore end pressure of around 5 pounds. There is also a been there done that Savage mixmaster that has an excellent 2 groove bore with a 44 date that also shoots very well. The barrel on this rifle does the same thing as your rifle, it rattles around in the fore end. Actually it takes a bit of pressure to make it touch anywhere. The last rifle which is capable of very consistent good accuracy with decent ammo is a ROF N04 made in 43 with a five groove barrel. There isn't any detectable fore end pressure on it either.
It's a toss up as far as the fore end pressure goes. In reality many commercial makers use a fore end pressure pad. It's a trick as old as the first firearms to help gain consistent accuracy. The thing is, it's also a very controversial issue. I can see it on a military rifle, especially one made to have a bayonet attached. Bench rest rifles and accurized sporting rifle and even some military match rifle don't have any fore end pressure or any pressure against any part of the barrel from the receiver to the muzzle.
My first suggestion is to make sure the spacer is in place and torque up the king screw properly. Then go and shoot it. If it shoots acceptably leave it alone. If the bore is worn don't expect really good accuracy. Also, remember these rifles were built to a different standard of acceptable accuracy. Between the rifle and the ammo, 4 inches was acceptable.
If your fore stock is loose you should take it off and check under the king screw (front of trigger guard) to make sure the spacer is still there. The spacer stops the wood in that area from being compressed and creating just the problem you mention. It also helps to keep even pressure on the ways where the receiver fits into the bedding and helps to keep the very narrow space needed between the fore stock and the butt socket flat. This is very important.
One other thing, not all No4 rifles shoot well with upward pressure on the barrel. That pressure is a cheap and easy method to correct minor bedding issues.
I have four No4 rifles that shoot extremely well. One is a No 4 MkI* Longbranch made in 1950 and another is a No4 MkII built by Pakistani Ordnance Factory. Both are in excellent condition inside and out. Both have fore end pressure of around 5 pounds. There is also a been there done that Savage mixmaster that has an excellent 2 groove bore with a 44 date that also shoots very well. The barrel on this rifle does the same thing as your rifle, it rattles around in the fore end. Actually it takes a bit of pressure to make it touch anywhere. The last rifle which is capable of very consistent good accuracy with decent ammo is a ROF N04 made in 43 with a five groove barrel. There isn't any detectable fore end pressure on it either.
It's a toss up as far as the fore end pressure goes. In reality many commercial makers use a fore end pressure pad. It's a trick as old as the first firearms to help gain consistent accuracy. The thing is, it's also a very controversial issue. I can see it on a military rifle, especially one made to have a bayonet attached. Bench rest rifles and accurized sporting rifle and even some military match rifle don't have any fore end pressure or any pressure against any part of the barrel from the receiver to the muzzle.
My first suggestion is to make sure the spacer is in place and torque up the king screw properly. Then go and shoot it. If it shoots acceptably leave it alone. If the bore is worn don't expect really good accuracy. Also, remember these rifles were built to a different standard of acceptable accuracy. Between the rifle and the ammo, 4 inches was acceptable.
Opps sorry its a No4 Mk1* with a two groove bore. It has the spacer. Shooting wise I have no idea how well it shoots since I haven't done more than shoots holes in a 12"x12" piece of cardboard 50 yards away while standing. The bore looks very good, with the rifling at the crown well defined (sharp edges). I was just more worried about damaging the stock more than anything else since this is the first rifle I very owned and it is a part of Canadas WW2 history. Thank you for all the info though, I think I learned more about my rifle in this post than in the last 26 years.
Below is the link for the Canadian No.4 manual, on page 3-2-15 it clearly states the rifle is to have 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure. This manual also covers the proper bedding for the No.4 Enfield rifle.
Of note is the fact that any No.4 Enfield rifle received at Holland & Holland for conversion to a No.4 (T) sniper rifle was rejected outright and sent back to their owning organization if the rifle did not have the required 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip. There is no thumb rule of 5 to 7 pounds, there is only what the military manuals state. And the Enfield No.4 rifle was never designed to have a free floating barrel. If the barrel is loose you have wood shrinkage and the bedding in the draws area is loose and the collar/bushing is too long.
I invite you all to read the Canadian No.4 manual, the Instructions for Armourers and The Canadian Marksman on the proper bedding of the Enfild rifle.
I donated these manuals at Milsurps.com for people to read and learn years ago and they are still not being read by many of you.
1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/edhortonmanuals/No4Mk1Arm.pdf2
Instructions for Armourers -1931 (Part 2 - Small Arms)
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=307-Instructions-for-Armourers-1931-%28Part-2-Small-Arms%29
The Canadian Marksman
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=305-The-Canadian-Marksman-%28Bedding-the-7.62mm-No.4-Rifle%29-1965
Of note is the fact that any No.4 Enfield rifle received at Holland & Holland for conversion to a No.4 (T) sniper rifle was rejected outright and sent back to their owning organization if the rifle did not have the required 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip. There is no thumb rule of 5 to 7 pounds, there is only what the military manuals state. And the Enfield No.4 rifle was never designed to have a free floating barrel. If the barrel is loose you have wood shrinkage and the bedding in the draws area is loose and the collar/bushing is too long.
I invite you all to read the Canadian No.4 manual, the Instructions for Armourers and The Canadian Marksman on the proper bedding of the Enfild rifle.
I donated these manuals at Milsurps.com for people to read and learn years ago and they are still not being read by many of you.
1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/edhortonmanuals/No4Mk1Arm.pdf2
Instructions for Armourers -1931 (Part 2 - Small Arms)
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=307-Instructions-for-Armourers-1931-%28Part-2-Small-Arms%29
The Canadian Marksman
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=305-The-Canadian-Marksman-%28Bedding-the-7.62mm-No.4-Rifle%29-1965
