Lee-Enfield bayonets

A

albertacowboy

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
I know that an identification thread on the L-E spike bayonets was featured recently, but very little was said about the effectiveness of the spike bayonet in actual combat. Skennerton says that the SMLE long sword bayonet (P07) was replaced as it was hard to keep sharp, bent easily, and was a bit too long in WWII to be handy. On the other hand, our Aussie comrades did fine with the P07 and even used it in Korea.

I've never seen much said about the combat effectiveness of the spike bayonet, even taking into account the relative scarcity of bayonet combat in WWII as compared to earlier wars. Does anyone have any info on just how well these pigsticker bayonets did perform?
 
pig sticker bayonet

I read sometime back, in the "Canadian's at War" series by Reader's Digest, where a "North Nova Scotia Highlander" was relating how he met 2 SS at close quarters from Kurt Meyer's 12th SS Hitler Youth after his unit was overrun at the battle of Authie in France , shortly after D-day...as i recall he shot one of the SS with his No.4 rifle..then used his rifle butt and bayonet to take out the other SS....it must have been effective ,as he was alive to tell the story.
 
Bayonets where used 99.9 % of the time for escorting prisoners or gaurd duty. In WW1, the percentages where more like 85%. Very little bayonet combat ever takes place, and when it does, normally the loser was getting it in the back as he tried to run away, few fought face to face with bayonet against bayonet. In all my reading of military history from wellington forward there are very very few instances of it occuring in a documented event. So a pointy nail that was cheap to produce and light was perfect...
 
I agree that the main reason for the spike is it was cheaper and easier to produce. Interestingly we are seeing a return to bayonets both for keeping civilians at a safer distance and for clearing houses and other close quarters combat.
 
Canadian Troops used their Pattern 1907 sword bayonets on the SMLE rifles with effect at Hong Kong when these outnumbered and outgunned troops clashed with Japanese troops, also at Dieppe , troops of the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry {The Riley's} used their sword bayonets with good effect when they closed with German troops in the Casino which was a German stong point.,also British commandos attacked a German gun battery with fixed bayonets
 
Last edited:
I read the account of the Malvinas(I guess Falklands would be more precise to us northeners), about the close combat during the fighting in (what was it, Tumbledown Mountain area?). That's about the only time I've heard of bayonets being used for close combat on the end of a gun in recent history.
 
British forces in Iraq did a bayonet charge not long ago, and freaked the hell out of the Iraq militants. :D

This topic has come up before...I'd suggest trying a search, but the search engine here sucks. :)
 
Last edited:
Wikipedia said:
The advent of modern warfare in the 1800s decreased the bayonet's usefulness, and as early as the U.S. Civil War (1861-65) the bayonet was ultimately responsible for less than one percent of battlefield casualties.[1] Modern warfare still sees the use of the bayonet for close-quarter fighting. British forces, for example, performed bayonet charges during the Falklands War and the invasion of Iraq. [2] The U.S. 27th Infantry Regiment during Korea once took out a Chinese Machine gun position with bayonets.

One USMC bayonet instructor has opined "The purpose of a bayonet is to stick your enemy as quickly and as many times as freaking possible".[citation needed] Trainees at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego get their first instruction in using the bayonet as a lethal weapon on their 10th day. The essence of bayonet fighting is to spring forward from a modified crouch and thrust the blade into the enemy. Recruits are taught to slash an enemy diagonally from shoulder to hipbone and how to use a bayonet to push aside an enemy's weapon.
Click to expand...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/06/13/wirq113.xml said:
An infantry battalion serving in Iraq has been awarded the dubious distinction of having been attacked more times than any British Army unit since the Korean War.

The officers and men of the 1st battalion of the Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment have been "in contact" with enemy forces on more than 250 separate occasions since they arrived in Iraq six weeks ago.

...........

"But at the end of the day, we got the better of them. The Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment were engaged in very heavy hand-to-hand fighting and bayonets were fixed. There's a great sense of satisfaction among the men with the way this turned out."
Click to expand...

Wikipedia said:
As of 2002, the U.S. Marine Corps is also issuing small quantities of new bayonets of a different design from the M9, with an 8-inch Bowie knife-style blade and no fuller, manufactured by the Ontario Knife Company of New York. This new bayonet, the OKC-3S, is cosmetically similar to the Marines' famed Ka-bar fighting knife. The weapon upgrade is part of a push begun four years ago by then-Commandant Gen. James L. Jones to expand and toughen hand-to-hand combat training for Marines, including more training in the martial arts and knife fighting. The new bayonet -- with a steel blade 8 inches long, 15/16 inches wide, and weighing 1¼ pounds with its sheath -- is slightly longer, thicker, and heavier than the current M9. A sharper point and serrations near the handle help penetrate body armor that many modern adversaries wear. In one demonstration, a prototype was able to pierce a punching bag covered with aircraft aluminum and a bulletproof flak jacket. Also, the handle is more oval than round to prevent repetitive-stress injuries during training.
Click to expand...

Bayonets are interesting things and I think no matter how much someone tries to downplay there significance nowadays there will always be a platoon in a battle that is forced to use them for what they were made. :)

Dimitri
 
No4 spike was developed in the 1920s when it was determined that a wound deeper than 6" was superfluous and 2" was added to take into account "a Russian in winter clothing" resulting in the 8" spike. From "The Lee Enfield Rifle" Reynolds.
 
Calum said:
British forces in Iraq did a bayonet charge not long ago, and freaked the hell out of the Iraq militants. :D

This topic has come up before...I'd suggest trying a search, but the search engine here sucks. :)
Click to expand...

To quote corporal Jones. "They don't like it up 'em sir"
 
Thanks to all you lads. My uncle, a tank commander in the South Alberta Regiment in Normandy, trained with a No.4 and spike and said it felt every bit as nasty as the P07 and SMLE carried by my grandfather in the 50 Bn. CEF during the 100 Days in 1918. Either one scares the hell out of me, and I get some very funny looks from the hunters at the range in the fall when I try some groups with the bayonet fixed.

I wonder if any of the troops in Afghanistan have had occasion to use their issued bayonets on the Taliban?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom