Lee Enfield No4 Mk2 for hunting

DirtyOldSix

DirtyOldSix

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My only hunting rifle, until 2 weeks ago, is a CZ550 in 30-06. The other smoke pole is an old (?) Lee Enfield no 4 Mark 2 just taking up space in my safe.

Whenever I go on hunting trips there is always a guy that does not have his own rifle, so I decided to see if I can turn this rifle into a decent hunting rifle.

I started by re-finishing the stock. I then took it to the range and shot a 2 MOA 3 shot group (100 metres) with the peep sights and local 150 gr. factory ammo.
Last week I took it to gunsmith that removed the iron sight and fitted a one piece scope mount on which I mounted a 2-7x32 rifle scope. This looked quite good and I fell in love.

Saturday at the range it took me 5 shots to zero the scope to shoot 2.5 inches high at 100 metres. Then came the big moment. Did I waste a lot of money on a rifle that will not group?

First 3 shot-group 1 MOA! Second 1.5 MOA with 2 holes touching each other. This is with factory ammo.

Questions: Any info on the No4 Mk2? I heard it was made in Canada? How strong is the action compared to the older SMLE's?

To reload do I buy the usual Lee Die set or the collet Dies (yellow container)

The primers of fired cases protrudes at the rear of the case, what causes this?

Is it worth glassbedding the old original fullstock?
 
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Don't glass bed it if it is shooting this well!

Protruded primers might be a sign of excessive head space ..take it to a gunsmith. The headspace can be adjusted by adding a longer screw on bolt head. They come in several lengths.
 
If you have lots of brass then I would use the collet dies as they size the necks only and will save the wear and tear on your brass rather than full length sizing.
Ya I have primer pops with my No.4 Mk.1 as well, and it probably has to do with headspace, but actually in my case I don't think I cleaned out the primer pockets properly before reloading the cases, so I'm going to try again before condemning my bolt head. Luckily, the bolt heads are plentiful and cheap to replace, so that's an easy fix.
The 303 is an excellent hunting rifle, and was used on every type of game in the world. You can handload up to 180 grain bullets (and possibly bigger) which work very well since they are actually .311 caliber which is bigger than the ones you use in the 30-06 actually.
More moose, deer and elk have been shot here in Canada with Enfields than any other type of rifle, believe it or not!
As far as where it was made, you can match up the stamps on the barrel and receiver using this website if you have the patience to do some comparing.

http://home.earthlink.net/~smithkaia8/index.html

There are some give aways though. If you see the name Lithgow on your rifle it was made in Australia. If you see Savage as the maker, it's probably made in the USA. If you see Longbranch on it that would be a Canadian rifle, but I'm pretty sure the Mk.2s weren't made here, though I'd have to look more into it.
Enjoy that rifle! Once they're scoped they are awesome, but if it's still dressed in full wood, please don't chop it up. Take it off first and sell it to a collector like myself, then buy an aftermarked Monte Carlo style or something.
Cheers.
 
jimpruner said:
If you have lots of brass then I would use the collet dies as they size the necks only and will save the wear and tear on your brass rather than full length sizing.
Ya I have primer pops with my No.4 Mk.1 as well, and it probably has to do with headspace, but actually in my case I don't think I cleaned out the primer pockets properly before reloading the cases, so I'm going to try again before condemning my bolt head. Luckily, the bolt heads are plentiful and cheap to replace, so that's an easy fix.
The 303 is an excellent hunting rifle, and was used on every type of game in the world. You can handload up to 180 grain bullets (and possibly bigger) which work very well since they are actually .311 caliber which is bigger than the ones you use in the 30-06 actually.
More moose, deer and elk have been shot here in Canada with Enfields than any other type of rifle, believe it or not!
As far as where it was made, you can match up the stamps on the barrel and receiver using this website if you have the patience to do some comparing.

http://home.earthlink.net/~smithkaia8/index.html

There are some give aways though. If you see the name Lithgow on your rifle it was made in Australia. If you see Savage as the maker, it's probably made in the USA. If you see Longbranch on it that would be a Canadian rifle, but I'm pretty sure the Mk.2s weren't made here, though I'd have to look more into it.
Enjoy that rifle! Once they're scoped they are awesome, but if it's still dressed in full wood, please don't chop it up. Take it off first and sell it to a collector like myself, then buy an aftermarked Monte Carlo style or something.
Cheers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info. No I will never chop it up!. There's too many chopped up Enfields in South Africa and it doesn't look as good! Also I have not machined away the excess metal, so I can re-fit the peep sight if I ever feel like it.
 
all Mk2 were made in Britain..... well perhaps some were made in pakistan on british tooling but thats another discussion.

Don't cut it up as that will turn a $500 rifle into a $100 rifle.

That said... now back to the question at hand.

Action strenght - same as the No4 Mk1 rifles

reloading - yes get the neck sizing die, your brass will last longer

Primers sticking out - :( thats not good, usually a headspace issue, get that checked. Solution to that is get a longer bolt head, they screw off and are numbered, (look for the number stamped on the bolt head lug) normal range is 0, 1, and 2, there are also 3's but those are hard to find. 0 bolt heads are the shortest and 3's being the longest. Enfields headspace off the rims and I believe min is .068" and max .074" (sammi) or .078" military but I don't have my book handy right now.

If its shooting as you describe glass bedding is not going to do much to help.
 
Thank you for not permanently altering your Lee Enfield.

I hunt with a No4.Mk2, still with all the original wood. I haven't shot a group as good as you have with yours, but that is almost certainly deficiency, not the rifle's limits. It certainly is accurate enough for hunting.

I use the Lee collet dies and neck-size rather than full-length re-sizing. My handloads seem to be as accurate as factory ammo I have tried, and Woodchopper is right about it making brass last longer.

The No.4 action is stronger than the WWI era SMLE, and but there is no difference in action strength between the various Marks of No.4. The Mk2 variation has the trigger mechanism hung differently from the earlier marks, and wasn't manufactured in Canada, but you may come across a Canadian-made (Long Branch) Mk1/2 or Mk1/3, which means it was originally a Mk1 or Mk1* later modified to the Mk2 type trigger. Long Branch made No.4Mk1s originally but switched to Mk1* (different way of removing the bolt) fairly early in the war so they made more of that type.
 
DirtyOldSix said:
My only hunting rifle, until 2 weeks ago, is a CZ550 in 30-06. The other smoke pole is an old (?) Lee Enfield no 4 Mark 2 just taking up space in my safe.

Whenever I go on hunting trips there is always a guy that does not have his own rifle, so I decided to see if I can turn this rifle into a decent hunting rifle.

I started by re-finishing the stock. I then took it to the range and shot a 2 MOA 3 shot group (100 metres) with the peep sights and local 150 gr. factory ammo.
Last week I took it to gunsmith that removed the iron sight and fitted a one piece scope mount on which I mounted a 2-7x32 rifle scope. This looked quite good and I fell in love.

Saturday at the range it took me 5 shots to zero the scope to shoot 2.5 inches high at 100 metres. Then came the big moment. Did I waste a lot of money on a rifle that will not group?

First 3 shot-group 1 MOA! Second 1.5 MOA with 2 holes touching each other. This is with factory ammo.

Questions: Any info on the No4 Mk2? I heard it was made in Canada? How strong is the action compared to the older SMLE's?

To reload do I buy the usual Lee Die set or the collet Dies (yellow container)

The primers of fired cases protrudes at the rear of the case, what causes this?

Is it worth glassbedding the old original fullstock?
Click to expand...

Are you sure it's not a Ross or a 98 Mauser? Groups are to good for an Enfield. :)
 
Win/64 said:
Are you sure it's not a Ross or a 98 Mauser? Groups are to good for an Enfield. :)
Click to expand...

I know they're too good for an Enfield, my neighbour has a sporterised no4 that will do no better that 3 MOA, no matter who shoots it. I have only fired 2 groups and ammo is a problem, because I have not started to re-load yet. Factory ammo is really expensive (R190 - $24) but as soon as I have more available I'll test it some more to see if it can consistently produce 1 - 1.5 MOA groups.

And to think that, that poor rifle was lying in the safe for at least 8 years. I must admit I wrote it off because the stock was really damaged and it looked quite bad.

I am not an expert on barrels, but it looks like it was made yesterday! I'm quite sure this rifle was used by the defence force as a "drill" rifle in training. It did not see a lot of shooting, but it was handled (mis-handled) very often.

In the 1980's to 90's The South African Defence Force sold these rifles to campers (soldiers that have completed their compulsory 2 years Army service) for 18 Rand, +-$2!!
 
Win/64 said:
Are you sure it's not a Ross or a 98 Mauser? Groups are to good for an Enfield. :)
Click to expand...

I've seen several LE #4's shoot MOA as our South African friend has witnessed with factory ammo. Some of the Canadian Ranger rifles are very accurate, and are always shot with commercial factory or milspec ammo. Unfortunately, a few have been reduced to junk by the enthusiastic application of oil to the bedding of the fore end. While the war-time production rifles with 2 groove barrels normally shoot poorly by comparison to the rifles with 5 groove barrels; there is no reason why a 5 groove LE in good shape and loaded with decent ammunition, should not be a shooter.
 
Win/64 said:
Are you sure it's not a Ross or a 98 Mauser? Groups are to good for an Enfield. :)
Click to expand...

I went to the shooting range again this weekend. This rifle is freak! I only shot 3 Groups, one at 100 metres and two at 220 Metres. I used PMP 150 gr factory ammo:

100 metres = 16.5 mm's that is 0.649605 inches!

220 metres = 42 mm = 1.653 inches
220 metres = 51 mm = 2.007 inches

I've got the targets and my friend (eye witness) verified the group sizes.
According to PMP the muzzle velocity is 2625 fps. Not exactly a magnum, but with this accuracy I'll gladly leave the 30-06 at home! According to a balistics manual I must sight it in to shoot 3 inches high at 100 m and then it will be 2.5 inches low at 250 metres.
 
I own a Savage No.4 Mk1 with 2 grooves in the barrel that shoots 1 1/4 inch at 100m with Winchester Silver box 180gr flat base. When I saw this I scoped it (bubba had already been at it and cut the wood up). Now I started reloading for it with Speer 150gr bullets over 48 grains of BL-C(2) (yes, the rifle loves the maximum at 39 500PSI!) and it now does 3/4 inch at 100m. Oh I tried wimpier loads first and it kept asking for more! I won't go over 48 grains though. Shoots well enough as it is!

When I got her she was rusty all over, unloved as it was! Well I gave her some love and now she gives some back! Can you imagine some people think Lee Enfields are junk?!
 
Amen!
People at work look down their nose at me when I say I bought another Enfield.... what a bunch of people with their heads firmly stuck in the sand, eh?
 
If it's in original condition - sell it and buy a sporter - you'll make a profit.

Altering an original condition milsurp is known as Bubba'ing. It is a quite effective form of holding several $100 bills and lighting them on fire.

Other than that, enfields have been used for hunting since they were made. The fact that so many of them are still being used 60-90 years after their introduction is proof that they function and function well.
 
A protruding primer is a sign of a low pressure round. It will happen even when headspace is within spec.
 
Win/64 said:
Are you sure it's not a Ross or a 98 Mauser? Groups are to good for an Enfield. :)
Click to expand...

:slap: two JC's I shot last year were consistently producing under 2" groups at 100 yards with their original iron sights, and often smaller. And factory 180gr Winchester ammo. Well, I am good shot, yes, but I cannot make bad rifle shoot good. I know JC is not Mk4 #2 but probably says something about Enfields accuracy in general. In fact since I shot those two rifles I bought one and its now my dedicated hunting rifle :D and this thread is merely a confirmation of what some already know :p
 
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