Lee Enfield No5 Mk1 Barrel Setback and Rechamber

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CharlesT

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I have a mismatched No5 that has been scrubbed and has little collector value as far as I know.

I was thinking about having the barrel set back and have it reamed to SAMI 303 British specs. It would then be far less of a PITA to reload for.

Any thoughts and possible smiths who might do the work?

Thanks

CT
 
What is the issue with it? Is it not already in .303? Is the headspace correct? Eroded lands/leade? Brass stretch too much after firing? What is the issue that makes reloading a pain? Just curious
 
I don't know how much the barrel would have to be set back for a SAAMI reamer to clean out the remains of the original chamber.
It would be necessary to pull the barrel, shorten the shank as necessary, probably pick up and cut threads, ream the chamber as necessary and recut the extractor groove. The barrel setback would have to be done in such a way that the front sight is properly indexed.
Wouldn't be surprised if the bill was in the neighborhood of $300.
Probably a lot easier to just get cases nicely fireformed, and then size only as necessary.
 
My old ishapore refurb no5 was bad too, but after a longer bolt head and now use a redding shoulder bump die and neck size only. Much better.

But now I have a minty no5 and it doesn't seem to be so hard on brass.
 
Put a small elastic band around the case just ahead of the rim before first chambering and firing and then segregate your cases and neck size only. Maximizes case life.
 
What I've done with good success with headspace that's a little on the large side is put a small o-ring around the base of the case, tucked up against the rim and fire form each round this way. By fire form I mean shoot your standard load, no need to throttle it back. It prevents the firing pin from pushing the case forward when fired, keeps it seated tight against the bolt face and your brass is then good to neck size and shoot again and again.

I learned early on it's handy to have a separated case extractor tool when shooting the 303. Inevitably you'll separate a case if you push too many reloads with less than ideal headspace. Again, my personal experience.
 
Maybe all starts with idea that re-sizing 303 British in Lee Enfield, is same as re-sizing 308 Win or 30-06 in most other rifles. Headspace system entirely different - is about sufficient clearance for the rim, only - a headspace gauge for 303 British does not measure the chamber, at all - could be most anything, so long as the case does not actually split or separate on its first firing. The designers, back then, did not care one bit about re-sizing or re-loading that case. We do.

Is several ways to form that new case to match that chamber - that means, it likely will not fit into other 303 British rifles - it might, but not assured. If you form it to fit that chamber - then full length re-size the fired case - have basically undone the first step. Fired 303 British cases notorious for "incipient head separation" - is not all that common for rimless cases like 308 Win or 30-06. I know of no way to "undo" that groove - is done when the case is fired the very first time.

As I follow the concept, idea is to transfer the "headspace" from the forward face of the case rim, to the shoulder in that chamber - and then be careful to not "set back" that shoulder when re-sizing. If the previously fired case has the groove inside, not going to be able to come back from that, so far as I know. At least two ways to do that - take new brass - expand neck to .323" or .338", then set case headspace by re-sizing back down to create a "false shoulder" - case head will not stretch. Or, use the "rubber o-ring" trick - the rubber band holds the rear of case head tight to bolt face when fired - body of case blows out to match to the chamber - case head will not stretch. The case has to get fired, a first time, to properly form it to your chamber, using either procedure. Similar can be done, if there is an issue, in most other rimmed or belted cases.

Is most common for me that the primer pocket gets "loose" - a sure sign for me that the particular case is "done". I actually do not remember the last case head separation that I had to deal with - for 303 British I do have the broken case extractor, but have not had to use it for decades.
 
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Just to clarify things:

The first firing of the brass was done using the rubber band technique. I used the bands that orthodontists use on braces.

I neck size only when reloading using a Lee neck sizing die. I have never full length sized the cases. Cases are trimmed every time and are PPU.

The major issue is a stiff bolt lift on about every third cartridge fired. Palm of the hand smack stiff. It extracts easily. I read somewhere that it maybe remedied by setting the shoulder back which makes little sense to me. Loads are moderate, about 39 grains of Varget under a 180 grain Speer RN.

That's why I started thinking about having a proper sized chamber reamed. Solve the issue by throwing money at it.

It is one of those problems that has me scratching my head.

CT
 
CharlesT said:
Just to clarify things:

The first firing of the brass was done using the rubber band technique. I used the bands that orthodontists use on braces.

I neck size only when reloading using a Lee neck sizing die. I have never full length sized the cases. Cases are trimmed every time and are PPU.

The major issue is a stiff bolt lift on about every third cartridge fired. Palm of the hand smack stiff. It extracts easily. I read somewhere that it maybe remedied by setting the shoulder back which makes little sense to me. Loads are moderate, about 39 grains of Varget under a 180 grain Speer RN.

That's why I started thinking about having a proper sized chamber reamed. Solve the issue by throwing money at it.

It is one of those problems that has me scratching my head.

CT
Click to expand...

IMHO, your stiff bolt lift is coming from stretched cases.

Not dangerously stretched but being PPU, not stretched in a consistent manner.

I avoid PPU brass vehemently. It's always a crap shoot, pertaining to quality and consistencey. Some of it is excellent and some is garbage.

If I may suggest, when I resize brass cases, for individual rifles, I usually set up the dies to bump back the shoulder appx .002+.

It's not as important to do this with cartridges that have very straight body tapers, such as 308Win but with cartridges such as 30-06 and especially 303Brit, 7.62x54R and 8x50 Lebel it's a no brainer.

Your cases are stretching and there really is nothing you can do about it, other than to control how much they stretch.

Neck sizing isn't a cure for case stretching, it's just a method to control it to more reasonable limits.
 
Use the heaviest brass you can find. The heaviest I've found is the Greek surplus HXP (185grains) and the Herter/Sako (177 grains). In comparison, Federal is 167 grains and Remington is 162 grains.
 
purple said:
Use the heaviest brass you can find. The heaviest I've found is the Greek surplus HXP (185grains) and the Herter/Sako (177 grains). In comparison, Federal is 167 grains and Remington is 162 grains.
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This is good advice, IVI is also heavy, if you can find some surplus cases.

You should be able to source some surplus IVI on the EE, by posting a WTB ad.
 
Well - Sooner or later, you are going to have to resize the body, if you have a body die, or the whole case if you have a FL die. Using a neck sizing die through successive reloadings will cause the case body to incrementally expand, getting tighter and tighter in the chamber. You may not notice this when loading the cartridge as Lee Enfields are #### on close, and the tapered lugs offer some mechanical advantage.
I generally have to use my FL die after 2-3 neck sizings. By leaving about a "toonie" gap between the FL die and the shellholder, one is able to resize the case just enough to chamber easily, which furthers brass life.
 
cosmic said:
Well - Sooner or later, you are going to have to resize the body, if you have a body die, or the whole case if you have a FL die. Using a neck sizing die through successive reloadings will cause the case body to incrementally expand, getting tighter and tighter in the chamber. You may not notice this when loading the cartridge as Lee Enfields are #### on close, and the tapered lugs offer some mechanical advantage.
I generally have to use my FL die after 2-3 neck sizings. By leaving about a "toonie" gap between the FL die and the shellholder, one is able to resize the case just enough to chamber easily, which furthers brass life.
Click to expand...

Nope, you should never have to resize the full body length if your pushing back the shoulder a few thousandths of an inch with each reload.

When you push back the shoulder, the upper part of the body, just beneath the shoulder edge is slightly compressed as well.

The rest of the taper will stay exactly the same as the chamber, after each firing.

Most would not do this, but I have IVI brass reloads with over a dozen shots out of them with this method and I haven't been able to detect a significant stretch area inside the case, where it will show up first.

These cartridges are always shot out of the same rifle.
 
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bearhunter said:
Nope, you should never have to resize the full body length if your pushing back the shoulder a few thousandths of an inch with each reload.

When you push back the shoulder, the upper part of the body, just beneath the shoulder edge is slightly compressed as well.

The rest of the taper will stay exactly the same as the chamber, after each firing.

Most would do this, but I have IVI brass reloads with over a dozen shots out of them with this method and I haven't been able to detect a significant stretch area inside the case, where it will show up first.

These cartridges are always shot out of the same rifle.
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I think you misread my post. I suggested the OP partially resize his brass using the FL die when his brass gets tight (ie push back the shoulder a few thou).He is currently using a collet die only.
 
cosmic said:
I think you misread my post. I suggested the OP partially resize his brass using the FL die when his brass gets tight (ie push back the shoulder a few thou).He is currently using a collet die only.
Click to expand...

You're right, I did misunderstand your post. It just appeared to imply you felt he would need to FL resize at some point.

all is good.
 
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