Lee Enfield "Palma" rifle questions

[Doug]

A fellow I met with today is down-sizing into a condo-MINIMUM. He is a life-long shooter and hunter, and needs to cull the herd down to a few hunting guns.

One of his rifles is a Lee Enfield Number four, converted to fire .308, but otherwise full wood and with a serious rear sight (Parker-Hale). He referred to it as a "Palma" rifle, which I think is an (inaccurate) reference to some Bisley target rifles. This one clearly is a target rifle but has a full mag and no cut-off for single-shot feeding per se.

Any ideas as to ballpark value? I figure the sight is worth at least two hundred bucks. If I buy the fellow's collection, this one will go to a new home because my eyeballs and open iron sights don't work any more. I don't want to offer him three hundred bucks if the rifle is worth a thousand, and I don't want to offer him a thousand if it is worth three hundred.

Any advice?

Doug

 

[LawrenceN]

Hard to tell without a pic, but it sounds like you have a DCRA rifle. Pics would be a good help, but IF it's a Long Branch, full wood, walnut stocked, with the Parker Hale 5C target sight, and a .308 magazine, you'll be looking at $1100.-$1400. We sold a DCRA Long Branch for $1300. recently.

 

[36 hamon]

If it's 7.62 DCRA it should have a contract number on the barrel on the know from on the recieiver and on the bolt there should be a small triangle by each number as well ....this would be a proper DCRA conversion ....by CAL now the military 7.62 and there are not many have a small oval with a number 5 or I've heard 6 as well inside the oval these were military comp rifles ....if you have a canadian 7.62 barrel on receiver not marked with the contract number then you have a parts gun prolly made up by an armourer or gunsmith as the parts were sold off as surplus at the auction at CAL in 1973......now if you have an English rifle that can be a whole different kettle of fish ....pics would help ...a lot
Also these rifles in canadian shoots started off with using the 303 mag as a follower for loading the 7.62 single shot ...Stirling had a kit you could buy with a 10 rd mag which required a hole to be drilled in the side of the receiver for an ejector ...sometimes you got lucky and the empties would eject without it sometimes the last empty would stick ...Enfield mag had an ejector block spot welded at the rear but for this mag to work correctly some minor milling needed to be done inside the receiver.....again a normal 303 mag is correct these others were sort of an aftermarket...the Enfield mag was made for military and police use as was the Stirling kits but Stirling sold them commercially as well ...not sure if Enfield did or if they were sold as surplus
As for price condition condition condition minty Long Branch 1200.00 - 1400.00 could be much more if receiver date is rare like my 1956 ....if it's a Brit gun more info required

 

[superbee]

If it was an actual Palma rifle from the 1967 Palma match, it would be worth a lot.Only 66 were used.Proving it is very difficult as no list of serial numbers are known to exist.I have one that was bought from an actual participant in the match.

 

[tiriaq]

It would be worth asking the gentleman for specific information about the rifle's use in competition. The records are available for the Palma, Bisley and DCRA matches.
I have a Bisley Prize Rifle won by a Canadian in 1899. The NRA of the UK was able to supply details about the matches, and when I was at Connaught, I had a look at the DCRA's records, and located the man.

 

[Doug]

Thanks folks. At this time, pictures are not possible, but it certainly sounds like one of the DCRA rifles. I do not believe the gentleman shot at Bisley, I am sure that would have come up in our conversation if it had been the case.

Regardless of any deal I might make with the owner, I will come back here with more details and if applicable will help him sell it. (Yes, I know, no sales for a friend..........)

Doug

 

[FlightRN]

Enfield Envoy for Palma matches

Good Day All,
There were indeed No4 rifles that were built for the 1970 Palma matches and "regulated" by Fulton's. My particular example was an Envoy rifle built originally as target rifle (not a rebuilt military platforms). When in the UK, I was able to purchase this one marked PALMA MATCH BISLEY 1970. It has a "sold out of service" (>S<) marking on the right rear butt stock socket and is fitted with a Parker Hale 5C rear sight and a John Wilkes front sight. During its shooting career, it was proofed at both 19T (tons) and 20T. The 20T indicates it was proofed again in the 80's.
They are sought after rifles and when available (which is pretty rare), command significant prices.
Regards,
Mike

 

[Cottage Hill Bill]

Palma matches have been held all over the world. The match dates back to 1876. It is essentially a 1000 yard match for iron sighted rifles. I believe some of the matches have been held in Canada, and there were certainly Canadian teams at many of the matches. If it has a PH 5C or the AJP (Parker) equivalent sight it probably has an eyepiece with multiple apertures. You should try it before you sell it. You'll be surprised at what a really small hole in the rear sight does for old eyes.

 

[36 hamon]

Very nice rifle !!!

 

[Doug]

I have now read the 65 page "sticky" about the DCRA conversions. YES, this is one of those. The owner did shoot this rifle in the 1967 Palma match.

Doug