Lee Enfield Question

johnny1984

johnny1984

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Hey folks!

I just bought my first Lee Enfield. It is a 1943 Maltby No.4 Mk1. I haven't had the chance to take it to the range so hopefully the point is moot but how will I adjust the front and back sights when the time comes? It's strictly over iron and doesn't even have the long range sight on the back, just the flip small and smaller eye holes.
Any extra info would be greatly appreciated!
 
The rear sight is calibrated for 300 and 600 yards.

The front sight is meant to be drifted from side to side to adjust windage. Your front sight base may or may not have a tightening screw to tighten the front sight in position.

If you shoot at 100 yards, and with the 300 yard peep the elevation is way off, you will have to change the front sight blade for another one of a different height.

Hope this helps

Lou
 
rear sight

You might check some of the Gun Shows, gun shops, the Equipment exchange or even E-Bay for a screw adjustable (type 1) rear sight. This will give you finer elevation adjustments, and will cost you about a $20 bill or so. It will take you less than 5 minutes to change it.

Your present sight is a type 2 flip sight.

.
 
buffdog said:
You might check some of the Gun Shows, gun shops, the Equipment exchange or even E-Bay for a screw adjustable (type 1) rear sight. This will give you finer elevation adjustments, and will cost you about a $20 bill or so. It will take you less than 5 minutes to change it.

Your present sight is a type 2 flip sight.

.
Click to expand...

X2... If my information is correct, the "L" flip sight was designed as a wartime expedient whereby intermediate range was selected by attaching/unattaching the bayonet. I'd remove it and keep it as correct to the rifle and pattern, but I'd buy a milled micrometer sight (first choice) or a sliding stamped sight for serious shooting. I bought a nice 1949 Long Branch #4 off a fellow CGN'er some time ago and it surprised me to see how big the battle sight aperture was as the Canadian made ones usually had a finer aperture than the British ones. I just swapped it out for the same Mk.III model but with the smaller hole. If you want, I have a "bubba'd" Mk.III sight where some idiot cut the battle sight down and filed it into a "v". There's no damage to sliding sight though, so if you want it, it's yours for free. Just cover my shipping. Let me know via PM.
 
"...drifted from side to side to adjust windage..." In the opposite direction you want the group to go.
"...take it to the range..." Check the headspace first.
 
LawrenceN said:
X2... If my information is correct, the "L" flip sight was designed as a wartime expedient whereby intermediate range was selected by attaching/unattaching the bayonet. ...
Click to expand...

A former infantryman writes:

:eek: Attaching and detaching the bayonet to adjust the range of the sights doesn't sound at all expedient to me, wartime or not.
 
LawrenceN said:
X2... If my information is correct, the "L" flip sight was designed as a wartime expedient whereby intermediate range was selected by attaching/unattaching the bayonet. I'd remove it and keep it as correct to the rifle and pattern, but I'd buy a milled micrometer sight (first choice) or a sliding stamped sight for serious shooting. I bought a nice 1949 Long Branch #4 off a fellow CGN'er some time ago and it surprised me to see how big the battle sight aperture was as the Canadian made ones usually had a finer aperture than the British ones. I just swapped it out for the same Mk.III model but with the smaller hole. If you want, I have a "bubba'd" Mk.III sight where some idiot cut the battle sight down and filed it into a "v". There's no damage to sliding sight though, so if you want it, it's yours for free. Just cover my shipping. Let me know via PM.
Click to expand...

What a great gunnutter:D
 
Thing to know about aperture sights is that the size of the rear aperture really doesn't matter for most purposes. Your eye will centre itself instinctively and all you have to watch is the front-sight blade. Place THAT JUST below where you want your bullet to go, squeeze carefully and that's where your bullet will go.

The large aperture was to suit the sights to working in low light levels.

At least, that's what we were taught when we trained on the things, before we got the C1 (FN).
.
 
Battle sights

The large aperture of the No. 4 Lee Enfield sight was designed to give a wide field of view under combat conditions. That is, under 300 yards. The smaller adjustable aperture was to be used for longer range shooting where you had a bit more time to aim.

If you happen to look at Johnson's standard WWII Canadian training manual for the .303 called "Shoot To Live", there is an example of this wide field of view. It shows the aim at an Observer with field glasses using the small aperture, but with the larger aperture, it revels the Sniper next to him aiming a rifle at you!

After WWII, the hole in the aperture seemed to be reduced for some reason or other, and the later rifles from Long Branch that were for target shooting had aperture holes of the same size in the battle sight and the adjustable slide.

It has also been suggested that some of these smaller battle sight apertures were replacement sights for use in the northern snow covered areas.

.
 
@Tooner;

It may not sound expedient but it just happens to be in the manual.

A COMPLETE set of manuals for the Number 4 Rifle, along with "Shoot to Live; the Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching" (which just happens to be the best single milsurp marksmanship book ever written) are available for free download over at milsurps dot com from the Military Knowledge Library. There is a link to it from the stickies at the top of this forum.

Johnson was a celebrated shot, coach and writer. His book, written in 1944, remains the best one ever done on shooting Service rifles with aperture sights. BTW, my coach beat him in a match, but very few could say that: the man was good...... and he wrote it ALL down for you!

Hope this helps.
.
 
Sight changes

johnny1984 said:
Thanx for the offer. I am trying to keep this as un bubba'd as possible. As always fellow gunnuttzer's rule!
Click to expand...

An admirable way to look at military rifles. However, you might consider that simply changing the rear sight is not really looked at as a "Bubba" modification to many Milsurp users.

There are 4 different sights that were Factory made and standard on the No.4 Lee Enfield. The original sight was the Type 1, "micrometer", screw type rear sight. The Type 2 was a wartime expedient to speed up production, the Type 3 was a stamped metal sight but had a small washer and a problem with the elevation lever breaking off. The Type 4 stamped metal sight did not use a washer, and had an improved elevation locking lever.

All of these sights are correct for the No. 4 Lee Enfield rifle. The superiority of the Type 1 sight was recognized, and almost every rifle going through a FTR had the sight replaced with a Type 1 sight.

I would also suggest that you follow SMELLIE's advice in the above post. My copy of "Shoot to Live" is a signed presentation copy given to me at a Military Rifle shoot, where I ruled the 200 yard line. That was over 50 years ago, and I still refer to "Shoot To Live" on occasion. There are still copies found at gun shows, but they are getting scarce. If you really want to learn how to shoot with the Lee Enfield, get yourself a copy of this book.
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Perhaps download a complete set of manuals for the Lee Enfield, which includes operating and armourer's maintenance instructions.

The manuals may be found in the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...esearch-for-milsurp-collectors-and-re-loaders


2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=3314

Complete Set includes:

- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Data Summary
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Parts Identification List
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Operating Instructions
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Equipment Description
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions


1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=3322

Complete Set includes:

- 1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Operating Instructions
- 1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions

Note: The difference between the 1991 set of No.4 Manuals and 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals, is that the 1991 manual contains armourer's information on how to properly "bed" the No.4 rifle, whereas the newer 2002 manual does not.

As others have mentioned, one of the best books I've ever read (and trained with) on shooting the Enfield rifle is available in electronic format, professionally scanned (thanks to Ian Robertson), in the Knowledge Library section Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...esearch-for-milsurp-collectors-and-re-loaders

"Shoot-to-Live" - 1945 (click here)

Presenting the Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching As Adopted By the Canadian Army, Ottawa, Chief of the General Staff.

This is an excellent Canadian Government issued training manual. If you are specifically a collector and shooter of Lee Enfield rifles, you'll find this to be an outstanding reference work and it contains a wealth of information on how to properly shoot the No.4 Mk1 Enfield, although much of the content is applicable to any bolt action rifle. I remember being issued this manual as part of our regimental rifle team, when I was a little younger back in the early 60's. ;)

Hope this helps... :)

Regards,
Doug
 
johnny1984 said:
Thanx Doug!
Again I appreciate all the help and respect the knowledge and experience.
Cheers!
John
Click to expand...

Thanks... appreciate the feedback, but I'm just the librarian of the Knowledge Library ... :)

The guys with the real knowledge like Peter Laidler, Ian Skennerton, Clive Law, Roger Payne, John Sukey, tiriaq, smellie, sunray, purple, Lee Enfield, Stencollector, woodchopper, claven2, wheaty, breakyp, Lance, Brian ####, green, son, maple_leaf_eh ... etc .... just to name a few (probably missed a dozen more), are the ones whom have forgotten more than I'll ever know and are just some of the ones to pay real attention to for Enfield advice. :cheers:

Regards,
Doug
 
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From the Small Arms Manual, written for the British Home Guard

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Grizz
 
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