Lee Enfield tips

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windy

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I'm looking for some advice on the Lee Enfield. There is a gun show coming up in early February, I'm hoping to pick up my first LE at the show. Aside from bringing my own gunsmith along how can i assure I'm not buying a lemon? What can I look for to ensure the bore is good, the action and head spacing are safe. What other checks can I do or are there questions that I should ask before purchasing a rifle? Any help would be great.
 
What kind of LE are you looking for? Your best bet would be to get a no4mrk1. On the top of the bolts head of No4's there is a number 1,2,3. Try looking for one with 1 or 2. 3 Means the bolt is almost worn out and that is the longest bhead. Without go and no-go gauges its kinda hard to tell head space. When closing the bolt with the trigger pulled see if the bolt flops down into place. There needs to be some resistance. For the bore, pull out the bolt and check down the barrel. Make sure the rifling is good because some of these LE or worn out.
Are you talking about going to the Orangeville gunshow??
 
Keep your eyes open for SMLEs, plenty of them at the Orangeville gunshow for a good honest price, if that is where you are going.
 
greyman441 said:
What kind of LE are you looking for? Your best bet would be to get a no4mrk1. On the top of the bolts head of No4's there is a number 1,2,3. Try looking for one with 1 or 2. 3 Means the bolt is almost worn out and that is the longest bhead. Without go and no-go gauges its kinda hard to tell head space. When closing the bolt with the trigger pulled see if the bolt flops down into place. There needs to be some resistance. For the bore, pull out the bolt and check down the barrel. Make sure the rifling is good because some of these LE or worn out.
Are you talking about going to the Orangeville gunshow??
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Not necessarily. The different size bolt heads allow for adjusting to headspace variation which may be from wear or from manufacturing tolerances. I.e. some rifles were fitted with a size 3 right from new and a 3 may well last your lifetime of shooting without wearing to the point of needing a longer bolthead.

But yes, it would be nicer to have a size 0 or 1 or 2 because then if it does reach that degree of wear there is a longer bolt head that can be the remedy.
 
windy said:
What other checks can I do or are there questions that I should ask before purchasing a rifle? Any help would be great.
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With so many variations and makes, you really need to know which Enfield you're being offered then match it's characteristics against a known all correct piece. Here's a bunch of examples .. ;)

Enfield Rifleshttp://www.milsurps.com/list.php?r=category/46-Enfield-Rifles

If you're just looking for a mix-master shooter and not an appreciating in value collectible, then that's a different story ... :D

Regards,
Doug
 
TheTooner said:
Not necessarily. The different size bolt heads allow for adjusting to headspace variation which may be from wear or from manufacturing tolerances. I.e. some rifles were fitted with a size 3 right from new and a 3 may well last your lifetime of shooting without wearing to the point of needing a longer bolthead.

But yes, it would be nicer to have a size 0 or 1 or 2 because then if it does reach that degree of wear there is a longer bolt head that can be the remedy.
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Yes I completely forgot about that. Thank you for correcting me.
 
There's that 'orrible "aitch word" again: headspace. Headspace on the LEE-Enfield rifle (and I have no idea why lazy people insist on calling them 'Enfields': Enfield made and designed a LOT of rifles over a period of 170 years) is one of the most misunderstood issues in the book. There are rifles with headspace 'way over book measurement which are safe with good ammo and shoot to beat the band. There are also rifles with perfect headspace that can't shoot worth beans.

Get a good barrel. If it's good at the muzzle, not oversized, nice sharp lands and grooves (especially just forward of the chamber) it can be MADE to shoot. If you have a good bore to start with, you're on your way. Likely you won't have bore gauges. I have bore gauges but they are finicky and slow to use accurately, so I carry an original Defence Industries (Canadian:Deh! DI 19XX Z headstamp) live round with me. If I see a rifle I like, I pop the slug into the muzzle and see how far in it goes; with a minimum-spec barrel, the case should stand about 3/16" (3 to 4 mm) proud of the muzzle. If the casing contacts the muzzle, you're looking at toast. EVEN THEN, some of the 'toast' barrels can be MADE to shoot if you know what you're doing. I have a rifle here which was made in Australia in 1918 and managed to get through 2 World Wars and 2 rebuilds without being shot. When I got it, it was unfired. On test, it shot 14 inches at 100 yards. After some very careful diddling about and the expenditure of 1/4 sheet of 180-grit sandpaper and 2 dollars worth of Acra-Glas, it shoots just under half an inch if you can hold it and the Ammo is up to snuff. That's a 30-to-1 improvement, all the way from 'junk' to 'better than most snipers'.

LEARN all you can. Scoot on over to milsurps.com, take out a (free) membership, get into the Lee-Enfield Knowledge Library and start reading. Download and read some books, starting with:
RIFLE 1942 (Basic British Army manual for WW2)
THE LEE-ENFIELD RIFLE (1960) by Major EGB Reynolds (the ONLY history of the rifles ever done before all the paperwork was shredded)
SHOOT TO LIVE (the Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching, also the best introduction to Service Rifle shooting ever written: Canadian, eh.)
HATCHER`S NOTEBOOK by Major-General Julian S. Hatcher. Hatcher was the man who discovered the problem which led to a million Springfields being scrapped. He also founded the entire science of Forensic Firearms Identification. His book is the single finest compendium of firearms knowledge ever assembled between two covers and it is simply written and easy to read. It is also ABSOLUTELY authoritative.

THEN start downloading some of Captain Peter Laidler`s articles. Before retirement, Captain Laidler was the top Armourer in the British Army and he wrote reams and reams of essential knowledge down, likely more than any other single Armourer has ever done before. He is also on-line at times to help people with their impossible problems, as are THREE other full-time Armourers. I just doesn`t get any better than that.

One word: AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE any rifle with ZF painted on the butt in letters about an inch and a half (4cm) high. It means that the rifle cannot be repaired at anything below Factory level...... and the Factory closed down 30 years ago!

Pick one you like which has a decent-looking bore that gauges well. If it doesn`t shoot, then get back to us here or over at milsurps and somebody will walk you through getting it up to snuff.

And don`t expect a 95-year-old rifle with iron sights which has been through 3 Wars and half a dozen Police Actions and Insurrections to shoot like a brand-new scoped $8000 tack-driver, especially not when using 75-year-old ammunition that Uncle Bob stored out in the chicken-coop. NEW factory ammo is for getting good reloading brass and that`s all; you will ONLY get top accuracy from your rifle with handloads. Serious. I haven`t bought a box of factory .303 ammo in the last 30 years for anything but test purposes.

Hope this helps.
 
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TheTooner said:
Not necessarily. The different size bolt heads allow for adjusting to headspace variation which may be from wear or from manufacturing tolerances. I.e. some rifles were fitted with a size 3 right from new and a 3 may well last your lifetime of shooting without wearing to the point of needing a longer bolthead.

But yes, it would be nicer to have a size 0 or 1 or 2 because then if it does reach that degree of wear there is a longer bolt head that can be the remedy.
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I had one that I received with a 0 bolt head. On checking the Head Space using a gauge it was determined to be a #2,so you have to be careful. Nothing wrong with a #2 that is for sure but it may have been a little unsafe shooting it with the 0.
 
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smellie said:
RIFLE 1942 (Basic British Army manual for WW2)
THE LEE-ENFIELD RIFLE (1960) by Major EGB Reynolds (the ONLY history of the rifles ever done before all the paperwork was shredded)
SHOOT TO LIVE (the Johnson Method of Musketry Coaching, also the best introduction to Service Rifle shooting ever written: Canadian, eh.)
HATCHER`S NOTEBOOK by Major-General Julian S. Hatcher.
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You overlooked Ian Skennerton's definitive history of the Lee-Enfield -

'The Lee-Enfield Story' ISBN 1-85367-138-X

tac
 
I didn't overlook it; I left it out deliberately.

The first (Rifle - 1942) is a basic manual.

The second (Reynolds) is a basic history.

The third (Johnson Method) is the best basic how-to-shoot-the-damn-thing done.

The fourth (Hatcher) will answer about 80% of SILLY questions and most of the good ones.

Skennerton's work is seminal and authoritative but it is not for beginners. Next year on that one, maybe. It is so detailed that a beginner can get confused.... but it is necessary for the serious collector.

Our friend is a beginner.... so far.
.
 
Ya I'm a beginner. Just got my PAL last spring, spent the summer with a little rimfire and now I'm looking to pick up a center fire.
 
Picked up a Lee Enfield Rifle No 4 MK #1* at the Lethbridge gun show($200). Its been sporterized so I dont know if that means I need to move to a different forum or not. From what I can tell the rifle was built in 1942, The reciever is made by longbranch, which I believe is Canadian but the piece of metal that seperates the two pieces of stock has england stamped into it. The serial number on the "seperator" piece matches the serial number on the bolt handle but there is no serial number on the reciever. The markings (funny shapes and squiggles) on the barrel match the reciever and other bits. The barrel does not looked chopped but I will have to do some research on barrel length, original sights and such. As for the bolt and chamber, there is a #3 on the bolt head and a #2 somewhere on the outside of the reciever, I hope the head spacing will be good. I will bring the Vernier Calipers on the first day at the range and see how much the case extends. There is very little rust on the outside of the rifle and the bore and rifling looks great. I tried the new bullet into the muzzle measurement and I only got the bullet about half way in towards the brass. I cant wait for the snow drifts to clear so I can get out to the range.
 
Upon further investigation, my rifle seems to be a Parker Hale sporter.It has a Parker Hale front sight and looks similar to ones I've seen online ie: Monte Carlo stalk, same front and rear sights. Can anyone direct me to a forum or website to held decode what all the stamps on the barrel and reciever mean.
 
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