Lee Enfields, J-C & #1, MK5

B

burnt45

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
60   0   0
Location
Ottawa area
Hey guys,
I've had a few LE's in my hands over the years, mostly sporters of some kind. They're cool rifles, but I don't know alot about them. These are the first 2 nice, and hopefully 'original' ones. The question I have is about the JC; is it a refurb or a fake?.... as I've heard 'they' made fake JC's out of #4's?

Details: it's electro-pencil'd 4/46 ROF (F) and there's a "V" infront of 4 digit serial #. Also, there's no cap on end fore-stock?... almost like Bubba started to sand it down?
Don't be shy to pick it apart!
... and what value would you put on both.... the other is a #1 Mk5, (1922) matching #'s.

Thanks for any help!

LeeEnfields007.jpg
[/IMG]
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/burnt45/LeeEnfields008.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/burnt45/LeeEnfields009.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/burnt45/LeeEnfields010.jpg
 
Last edited:
burnt45 said:
Also, there's no cap on end fore-stock?... almost like Bubba started to sand it down?
Don't be shy to pick it apart!
... and what value would you put on both.... the other is a #1 Mk5, (1922) matching #'s.
Click to expand...

It looks original to me. Not all of them had forend caps. It was a wartime expedient to stop making them with them, but was started again after the war. That No1 MkV could be worth a lot of money if all original / matching / and good condition, as they are quite rare. As for the No5 they are really common and usually go for about $350-$400.

Check the serial numbers at these locations. No5 - bolt, receiver, magazine, also check it has proper 800yd sight.
No1 - bolt, receiver, barrel, rear sight (maybe not on MkV?), nosecap, possibly the stock as well
 
Last edited:
Jungle Carbine Barrel

Take the top wood of the carbine if the barrel has been lighten (Milled grooves) it is most likely original everything else looks good. Very nice No1 Mk5.
 
#5: Yes it has 800 yard sight, matching #'s on bolt and receiver but not on mag. I took off the top wood, and yes the barrel has milled concave grooves (2) at the chamber area.
#1: I found matching #s on receiver, bottom front stock, nosecap, bolt, mag, receiver ring.... where is the # on the barrel? Nothing on rear stock.
Also, would the value be affected if the badge(?) hole on stock be wood-plugged, and a repair to top of stock at buttplate?

Thanks guys!
 
your No1 MkV is a trials rifle, never went into full production. That should hint at its value :)

20000 produced 1922-24

the brass disk is plugged with wood, thats not a big deal. :D
 
Last edited:
If I read an article right, The No.1 MkV's were a trials rifle developed to address the issues discovered with the No.1 Mk3 and No.1 mk3* during the first War. they lead to the development of the No.4 Mk1, and alot of the trials rifles were upgraded to No.4 standards, To the right Hands, that No.1 could be the best thing that happened to a collector and be worth quit a shiny penny. If I am wrong, Someone correct be as the last thing I want to do is give someone false info.
 
burnt45 said:
#5: Yes it has 800 yard sight, matching #'s on bolt and receiver but not on mag. I took off the top wood, and yes the barrel has milled concave grooves (2) at the chamber area.
#1: I found matching #s on receiver, bottom front stock, nosecap, bolt, mag, receiver ring.... where is the # on the barrel? Nothing on rear stock.
Also, would the value be affected if the badge(?) hole on stock be wood-plugged, and a repair to top of stock at buttplate?

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

The barrel serial number is under the top wood. Should be right beside the one on the receiver, like this:

100_2235.jpg
 
Thanks Vimy, I tried to take the top wood off, but I didn't want to force the issue with those 2 small pins(screws?) on the top near chamber....... and, I thought I busted the rear barrel band until i realized it was hinged..... DOH!!
 
Ok, so i grew a pair and gave the top-wood of the #1 a good yank to reveal matching barrel #. The barrel under the wood is completely covered with rust inhibitor..... like cosmoline?

Is it common to find a LE with a matching mag #?
 
I've seen mostly matching mags on Jungles. Sometimes on No4's.

I've read in a few places "red jelly" being the name given to the grease put on the barrel before it's hidden in the forearm and hadnguards, if I recall correctly!

Lou
 
In photos 1 and 4 with the No1MkV is that the pointed end of a wood screw going through the forearm just under the chamber end of the barrel? If so your rifle likely went through an FTR at Ishapore. Next check your safety. The MkV used a MkIII style safety with a serrated bevel on the leading edge and is stamped with a V. Your also missing your stacking swivel. The MkV uses a narrower version than the earlier MkIII.
Also be a good idea to have a look at your shell cut off plate. If it has a “Viewing Hole” it’s likely a replacement.
 
Last edited:
Yes, there's a screw where you say, it's countersunk into the wood.
There's no hole in the shell cut-off plate, unless you mean the hole in the outer knob.
Stacking swivel...... not sure what you mean.
The safety is nothing like the JC's safety, it's un-uniform shape like a peanut with serrations on the top and back edges..... there's no "V" unless you mean the one on the gizmo that holds the safety switch to the gun (that looks more like an "up" arrow).
So what's the significance of these little changes at Ishapore? Seems like a waste of time.
 
burnt45 said:
Yes, there's a screw where you say, it's countersunk into the wood.
There's no hole in the shell cut-off plate, unless you mean the hole in the outer knob.
Stacking swivel...... not sure what you mean.
The safety is nothing like the JC's safety, it's un-uniform shape like a peanut with serrations on the top and back edges..... there's no "V" unless you mean the one on the gizmo that holds the safety switch to the gun (that looks more like an "up" arrow).
So what's the significance of these little changes at Ishapore? Seems like a waste of time.
Click to expand...

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you with this. I needed to update a few photos for you.
Though the screw may not have been added during an FTR at Ishapore most rifles seen with this screw received it well in service in India.

From what you’ve said you have the correct shell cutoff. When looking down into the action it should look like this one.
Cutoff plate without “Viewing Hole”
DSC04313Medium.jpg


In the years between WWI and WWII a new style of “Stacking Swivel” was introduced and fitted to the MkV. They aren’t often see as so few service rifles were made between the wars and by the time production was restarted the use of a stacking swivel was ended. It’s not uncommon to see this part missing as most rifles still in inventory had it removed during any service work.
Stacking swivel with the older incorrect style shown lose
DSC04780Medium.jpg


The proper safety for the MkV has a beveled and serrated front edge and is marked with a “V“ for Mk.V. If the part broke or became unserviceable often a regular No.1MkIII safety would be substituted as original replacement parts weren’t often available because of the rifles limited production and trials status.
Mk.V (No.1Mk.V) Safety.
DSC04784Medium.jpg


So what's the significance of these little changes at Ishapore? Honestly nothing as far as keeping a rifle in service. It’s just how they did it. Now for you as a collector comes down to value.
Your rifle is missing it’s butt stock marking disk and the hole has been filled. The forearm has an “Ishy. Screw” and is missing a correct stacking swivel and safety but has a correct cutoff plate. So IMHO this represents a 20% decrease in value. So IF a correct MkV is worth $900.00 to $1100.00 on average yours might be worth $700.00 to $880.00. NO mater what the MkV is hard to find and yours looks nice so nice find!
 
Thanks "#4", great pics BTW.
You're absolutely right about the swivel and safety... my safety is the same shape but without face-serrations. The shell cut-off is as shown.

Now all that's missing is to drill and tap it!! ;)

I am gonna take it out and give 'er a try though.... with the JC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom