Lee factory crimp die 9.3x62 modified to 9.3x57?

[Workin Man]

Has anybody tried this? If so how did you go about it and how did it work out? I am thinking that cutting the die body shorter and the collet as well should do it. I am also planning to shorten a 9.3x62 case length gauge. My thoughts on this are to cut some length off the end with the " pin " that goes through the flash hole, then drill the center of it to accept a decapping pin from a sizing die. JB weld or similar to hold the decapping pin. Any thoughts or better ideas appreciated. I know these can both be custom ordered from Lee, but wait time and cost makes me think this may be a better option.

Jim

 

[Potashminer]

I am in the middle of similar. I have a 9.3x62 gauge ordered - also have one here in my 9.3x62 reloading stuff. The one here does not have a separate pin - that pin appears turned from same material as the body is. Other gauges that I have here appear as if the pin is separate - seated into a hole as you describe. For the gauge "body", I intend to turn on my lathe - make it 62mm - 57mm = 5mm shorter than it is now - then work away at the pin length to get to 2.224" which I think is correct trim length for 9.3x57 - at least according to a post I found from Baribal. Plan "B", if I screw up the pin length, is to drill as you describe and insert a stub of a drill bit and grind to correct length - second chance at hitting the dimension...

Waiting to hear what Rusty Wood advised regarding the FCD - I think shortening a x62 should work - would be nice to hear of someone did it though???

 

[Potashminer]

While typing previous post, an email from Rusty Wood came in. Lee Precision can custom make a FCD, but at least three months before work could start, and Rusty Wood advises that the cost would be quite high. So I am going to order a 9.3x62 FCD and try to shorten it. Measure about 3 times before cutting - hoping it will work?

 

[Potashminer]

Has anybody tried this? If so how did you go about it and how did it work out? I am thinking that cutting the die body shorter and the collet as well should do it. I am also planning to shorten a 9.3x62 case length gauge. My thoughts on this are to cut some length off the end with the " pin " that goes through the flash hole, then drill the center of it to accept a decapping pin from a sizing die. JB weld or similar to hold the decapping pin. Any thoughts or better ideas appreciated. I know these can both be custom ordered from Lee, but wait time and cost makes me think this may be a better option.

Jim

Just to clarify - I did make a gauge for a 7x61 Sharpe & Hart from a 7 mm Rem Mag gauge. It is more than shortening the pin, since the gauge body will run into the inside of the case head - so have to shorten the body of the gauge - at the pin end, then shorten the pin. Smarter people than me could do it on the top end, but I just am not experienced enough on my lathe to pick up a thread and extend it - so leaving that factory end alone.

 

[Workin Man]

The length of the die body isn't critical, it only has to thread into the press and only contacts the collet at the top end. Cutting the collet to length is where the precision comes in. All of my case length gauges appear to be one piece ( I have 10 or so different ones). I am very limited here as to what I have for machine tools. I would be working with a drill press, end mill and a dual cross slide drill press vice, no lathe. Any chance you want to make two of each while you're at it? LOL

By the way, how did you make out with the 7mm HS case length gauge?

Jim

Edit; we were typing at the same time it seems.

 

[Potashminer]

Can not find the home made one just now - from somewhere, I got a factory made 7mm S&H in the reloading box now. But picture below is of three gauges. Outside ones have what appears to be a pin that is different material than the body - as if a hole drilled into front and that pin inserted. Middle one appears like several others - that pin part appears made of same material as the body. Oddly, the middle one and the right one are both labeled by factory for 7mm Mauser - so obviously had more than one way of doing it. The very left one is for 30-06.

Not real certain how precise these need to be? Tip of the pins appears rounded, not flat - obviously need enough pin to protrude right through firing pin hole and hit the holder, and the gauge body trimmed back not to hit the inside of case head. I noticed on a stiff threaded one - I used a tool to tighten cutter - cutter made "notches" in the top shoulder of the gauge, so cutter very sharp, gauge can not be that hard. I went with these because they were cheap - at least for first one - not so sure after a dozen different calibers, but for sure I find them dead nuts repeatable - not so sure that the trim length is precisely critical number - just something less than a maximum length - but they do appear to be the same every time, and get entire batch the same - even coming back after doing others. So that makes set-up for roll crimping a lot easier.

This go-round with the 9.3 cast bullets, there is no crimp groove - hence my desire for a Factory Crimp Die to just "smooth out" the "M" die "cup" once the bullet is seated.

 

[Workin Man]

I actually buy a cutter and lock stud for each new caliber. I screw them together and keep them with the dies. In my mind this keeps them more consistent/repeatable vs switching gauges each caliber change. The cutters are cheap enough too. The length of the tip is the part that needs to be the most precise. the tip bottoming out on the lock stud determines the trim length. The rest of the gauge just needs some taper near the tip and close to bullet diameter for the rest of the length to line things up.

Jim

 

[Potashminer]

So, sort of on the same theme - 9.3x57, eventually, I hope. Stupid me, I sold a 9.3 "M" die that was here - and of course no longer listed. So ordered a .375" one (for 375 H&H, 38-55) thinking I could thin it down. Way harder finish than I thought - no good way here to grab it, so decided to make an "M" type "wanna be" - that would work in my Lee Universal Case Expander die. Started with a 5/8" bolt and turned down to more or less .560" to match the "butt" potion of the Lee taper slugs. Then turned the neck portion more or less to .370" (.002" larger than the cast bullets) for the "cup" portion and then the "nose" portion to .366" (.002" smaller than the cast bullets). Was by far the "fussiest" I have tried yet on this old Atlas lathe!!!



I used it on one case - just by "feel" in the Rockchucker - no "stops" yet invented at that point - no way to reproduce, but wanted to see if it would work. Was able to insert that first cast bullet in to the depth of the gas check with my fingers, then it stopped, so have to be close?? The cup (thicker by .004") section is coloured black with jiffy marker for the picture.



Then "red neck" as all get out, I know - but I took a couple 1/2" nuts and bored them out with 1/2" drill - they set on the shell holder and provide solid repeatable stop for the press ram, when they hit the bottom of the die body. I have enough adjustment left on the top part of the Lee die to be able to set the depth I want for that "cup" portion. I am thinking this might work! (EDIT: I do not know why this last picture went side-ways, nor do I know how to rotate it, now that it is posted!!)

 

[450yukon]

 

[Potashminer]

Thank-you 450Yukon. Not certain how you did that, but looks better!

Back to the OP's question about cutting a 9.3x62 FCD shorter for 9.3x57. Have not received the FCD yet, but I have just ordered this gizmo:



The picture stolen from vendor's website, which is displayed. This thing apparently has a 1/2" x 1/2" shank which will be grabbed in a Quick Change tool holder on my lathe. Overall length of it appears to be greater than 4". My Dremel type tool has 3/4"-12 tpi (British NSF series thread, I think) threaded shoulder - apparently will turn into this gizmo - hopefully creating a "cut off" tool on my QC post, allowing me to use the compound to feed it into a work piece held in my chuck. Will let me use those thin cut-off wheels to try to cut the FCD body and then the sleeve - which I expect to be hardened to some degree. Will see once it all shows up here.

Have not started on the case length gauge yet, which was the other part of OP initial question.

 

[Workin Man]

Thanks for your help so far. I am not intending to load cast , at least right now ,for the 9.3x57. ( I am casting 12ga slugs and trying some cast for the 45-70). A dremel mounted to a lathe toolhead is an interesting idea.

Thanks, Jim

 

[Potashminer]

9.3x57 - case length gauge from a 9.3x62. Just finished. So, a headache right off the bat - what is correct length?? From a post some years ago on another site, by Baribal, he points out that some North American reference material has multiple errors in translating mm to inches, etc. that appear to get repeated in other references. So he found two - CIP, in Europe, sets Max 9.3x57 case length at 2.236" and Min (trim to?) length at 2.228". Norma sets max case length at 2.244" and Min (trim to?) as 2.224". He states he personally trims "just below 2.224".

So what it should be, versus what I could "hit". I peeled the fat part of the case gauge back 5mm (.197") and kept the same slope to it - resulted in a very long "pin" for going through the flash hole. Snipped off the obvious excess length with a side cutter. Slipped that gauge into a cartridge case with the pin sticking out the base - took a couple swipes with file - measured. Again a couple swipes. And measured. Repeat. As per usual with me, got a better set up and got a real good file bite - and measured - Yikes!!! By pure luck I ended at 2.223" - measured with two different calipers - so I will call it there - must be the "just below 2.224"" that Baribal mentioned. Measured the 8 or 9 cases that I converted to 9.3x57 from 8x57 - none anywhere near maximum, or even trim-able length to test - most all shorter than 2.220"...

 

[Workin Man]

I will have to dig out my brass and measure it. It is actual 9.3x57 brass made by Metalverkin if I remember correctly. Sounds like the metal of the case length gauge was pretty easy to machine, IE not hardened?

Jim

 

[Potashminer]

Yes, knowing an actual measurement of "real" factory new, unfired European made 9.3x57 brass would be helpful! And I did not find that Lee case gauge to be "hard" at all - I had a carbide insert on my old lathe and it peeled it off easily. My first "nip" with side cutter took off about 1/8" - very easy to cut - so if it was hardened on pin, was only hard on the very end. And that tip part has joined a myriad of other little bits under shelves, in corners and other hiding places on my shop floor!!!

That holder for Dremel tool that will go in the tool post on lathe has cleared Canada Customs, apparently. I do now have a Lee FCD for 9.3x62 here, so once I get that piece, I will work out how to shorten that FCD for crimping on a 9.3x57.

 

[Potashminer]

FYI if you are going to try to shorten that case gauge - I stuck it through a case, with the excess long pin sticking out the flash hole and filed that way - wanted to come up with some way to hold / support the pin itself while I filed on its end. Could probably be done by drilling correct size hole through metal block, I guess - but the cartridge case was handy, and the neck part kept the gauge "straight" for trying to file that end off to "square"...

 

[Workin Man]

My brass is all once fired now. It was new when I bought it. I measured 10 cases and most measure between 2.206" and 2.208", with one measuring 2.200". It seems to be even shorter than your converted 8x57.

Jim

 

[Potashminer]

Yes, I am a bit surprised at those lengths on your cases - but they are what they are! I do have some Cerrosafe here - I think I will cast my chamber and work out what it was cut for. So far as I know, I just need to be shorter with my brass, than the neck cut in my chamber - do not want the brass too long to pinch the bullet by extending past that neck cut diameter. The actual distance will be what they are - I will just have to work within them.

 

[Workin Man]

How consistent is the length of your cases? If I am not mistaken, you need them all the the same length, give or take a couple thousands, to get a consistent crimp. You may need to shorten your gauge a bit more just to even them all up. Looks like I may have to make mine shorter still. I ordered some parts including the crimp die and gauge from Higginsons, hoping they actually have it in stock. It will be interesting to see the results of your chamber cast.

Jim

 

[Potashminer]

Consistent length, I know, is very important to make roll crimps, since they are formed by a shoulder within the seating die. Have not yet played with that FCD, but I think that affair does not care nearly so much about neck length - the cast bullets that I have do NOT have a crimp groove, or I would be doing a roll crimp into that groove - so I am really just looking to "smooth out" the flare that occurs with my home made "M" die to seat those cast bullets in the first place. A great deal of the "fun" in getting set up to do this!!!!

A quick look into the top of the FCD, seems like the crimping faces are about .125" or so??, so I would think so long as they protrude a smidgeon past the case mouth, their crimp would be good?? I am not sure I see how .063 or .020 or .115" of "crimp" would matter, since I plan to simply get the flared part of the case back "smooth", and not actually pressed into the bullet.

 

[Workin Man]

As an example, Hornady Lever Evolution brass for the 45/70 is 0.050" to 0.060" shorter than standard (depending who you ask) and Lee makes a special FCD die to work with that brass because the standard crimp die won't work. For your purposes, you may be right and it won't be an issue. I am actually trying to get a crimp into a jacketed bullet, not neccessarilly into a cannelure. We are working on the same thing, but not for the same reason or purpose I guess.

Jim