Lee Metford as a Deer Gun

Red Herring

Red Herring

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I need help deciding something here.

I have decided to take up hunting, and have some decisions to make. I could use my SKS for deer, the accuracy isn't bad, but it's not the best choice. I also have an old 1890's Lee Metford Sporter in .303 which is in absolutely beautiful condition, but needs to be bedded to improve accuracy. As is it shoots all over the map, even at 25 yards. The action is excellent, the trigger is excellent, crisp and light, and it has been rebarreled with a BSA enfield which is in nice shape.

I like the idea of revamping the Metford, but at the same time, I am wondering if it is worth it. I am tempted to do it myself, just from a learning perspective, as I have never bedded a barrel before, but at the same time I am worried about buggering it up, and potentially ruining a very nice gun. I could have a gunsmith do it, but I doubt the Metford is worth all that much to begin with, and the question then becomes, am I better off spending the money on something like a Stevens 200 and a reasonable scope, and leaving the Metford to become a safe queen?
 
Well - Bedding a Lee Enfield/Metford is difficult to do, as a board member recently found out! If you're into 303's, why dont you pick up a nice sporter, such as a Parker Hale? They are very well done, and are scope mount capable (also typically have a 5 rd mag.)
 
With the new barrel you won't have as much to worry about shooting it out over the years, unlike the original metford barrels. I say go for it. It'll be worth learning how to bed an enfield, as everything after will be simple :p

If things really go wrong you can always take it to pullens and get them to do it. Or buy a sportered enfield to keep the ammo the same - $50-$200 will get you a good sporter enfield that will keep trucking for years to come.
 
If it shoots literally "all over the place" with a good tube, chances are about 10 to 1 that the PROBLEM is The Damned Crack.

What happens is that the wood dries out, these rifles being made in a marine climate and now expected to exist in this cold, dry country. The wood dries out and shrinks and the metal parts don't, so there is tension and finally the wood splits at its thinnest point, right at the back end of the forestock, just to the rear of that little slot where the trigger/sear mechanism sits. Bingo! There goes your entire bedding job in one instant and you now have an old POS that shoots all over the place. Clean out The Damned Crack with brake-drum cleaner and spread it very carefully, get in a couple of drops of Acra-Glas and clamp it gently for about 12 to 24 hours, trim any excess and you can put your rifle back together with the bedding restored almost all the way to what it was when it left the factory. Best 5 cents you will ever spend!

Lee-Metford for deer? Why not? Just don't beat her around and you'll both have a good time... and you'll both have another tale to tell. She can go back in the safe and stick out her safety and tell all the other queens that she has been out hunting..... and they haven't. Next year you'll have a riot on your hands as they all volunteer!

Go for it. But fix that stupid crack first.

Good luck!
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What about putting a synthetic stock on it... would it still need to be bedded? Might stand up in the field better as well? I see Cabellas has them for $79.

I have only shot ~ 30 rounds through it. They were the Privi .303 stuff.
 
I do believe that Prvi Partisan loads their .303 amo withboat-tails these days. Any Enfield barrel will shoot at LEAST as good, and generally better, with flatbase bullets.

I load my .303 ammo with Sierra Pro-Hunter 180 flatbases, seated all the way out to the OAL of a military Ball round, ahead of 37 to 38 grains of 4895 powder. It is a reasonably mild load, quite sufficient for deer-sized critters, which does not over-tax the old rifles. This is my standard loading for testing any .303 rifle and, in most rifles, it is very accurate.

But if the rifle is literally "all over the place", the problem, or a good chunk of it, most likely is at The Damned Crack. I have a 1918 Lithgow, a new rifle which had escaped firing since it was made, that shot 14-inch groups at 100 yards. Problem was The Damned Crack. Fixed that, touched up the bedding a bit and today it shoots literally half an inch off the sandbags, given that your eyes are good enough.

Only takes a few minutes to see if the Crack is actually there.

Good point: Prvi Partisan makes good brass. When you get that banged off, you have some good, solid reloading brass.

Enjoy.
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Red Herring said:
What about putting a synthetic stock on it... would it still need to be bedded? Might stand up in the field better as well? I see Cabellas has them for $79.

I have only shot ~ 30 rounds through it. They were the Privi .303 stuff.
Click to expand...

A synthetic stock might help - but might not. Since bedding is all about putting the right amount of pressure on the barrel in the right place, you would basically be relying on the synthetic stock being the lucky one. No4 enfields had something like 8-10 lbs of upward pressure just under the muzzle exerted by the stock, and many have upwards pressure halfway down the barrel etc. There are lots of threads on bedding - the job itself is easy enough once you understand how it works.

Keep in mind enfield bedding and I are not the most familiar.
 
deer rifle

Or, you could go to the Trade-ex Canada (sponsor link is above) and look at the variety of hunting rifles available, a good lot of them under $250. Some even have scopes.

There are sporterized rifles, factory sporter conversions, and even Husqvarna and Stiga sporting rifles in that price range. Lots of them have at least scope bases, and some have side safeties and other options. The 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge is an excellent deer cartridge and ammunition is fairly easy to find.
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Alright. Rescue it is. I will pull the stock when I get some free time, and check for "The Damned Crack". I'll also try my hand at bedding the stock, and make sure the barrel is floated. Doesn't look too hard from the videos I have found online, and Devcon looks like a good choice of material as there is virtually no shrinkage.

Thanks for the help guys. I do like the idea of putting some meat in the freezer using the old girl. A new rifle is always nice, but this is way more fun!
 
Just my 2 cents worth, but I did a bedding job years ago on 2 old milsurps. One was a No.4 sporter Lee, and the other was a Steyr in 8MM. Believe it or not, I used auto body filler (the one with fibreglass threads in it) from Canadian Tire as the bedding. I used Pam as the release agent. They worked great and the accuracy was good with the Lee and astounding with the Steyr. If I had experimented more with different ammo and loads for the Lee, I may have gotten better accuracy with that as well. Talk about "home style" gunsmithing!
 
If it still has the original Metford barrel, it has very shallow rifling, for black powder, not the Enfield rifling for smokeless, most probably part reason it is all over the place, besides some of the other conditions mentioned. I would look at a newer rifle for hunting.


"The Metford pattern of rifling was shallow and subject to rapid wear when ammunition loaded with cordite was used, with barrels becoming unusable after less than 5,000 rounds. Changes included a new, deeper rifling pattern (designated Enfield pattern) and sights adjusted for the flatter trajectory enabled by the smokeless propellant."
 
It has a newer barrel with enfield rifling.

Forty4Forty said:
If it still has the original Metford barrel, it has very shallow rifling, for black powder, not the Enfield rifling for smokeless, most probably part reason it is all over the place, besides some of the other conditions mentioned. I would look at a newer rifle for hunting.


"The Metford pattern of rifling was shallow and subject to rapid wear when ammunition loaded with cordite was used, with barrels becoming unusable after less than 5,000 rounds. Changes included a new, deeper rifling pattern (designated Enfield pattern) and sights adjusted for the flatter trajectory enabled by the smokeless propellant."
Click to expand...
 
Try different ammo. Generaly, older rifles prefer flat base bullets, not boat tails.

Long Lee metford/Enfields barrels were held at the barrel reinforce and at the lower barrel band only. The remainder of the barrel free floated with clearance in the nosecap. I have an 21 inch barreled 1896 with a sportered forearm, the barrel touches the wood at the very front tip and at the reinforce. The back end of the forearm is really tight at the back end where it fits between the draws and the butt socket band. The front trigger guard screw is cranked tight down to the screw bushing. The thing is a tack driver and works well for me out to 100yds. Good enough for my deer hunting.

So if different ammo doesn't change anything and your barrel bore and muzzle crown are good, then look at the bedding. Everything has to be tight, tight, tight on these puppies.
 
So, with that in mind, would it be best to bed the entire forarm, as opposed to free floating the barrel?

englishman_ca said:
Try different ammo. Generaly, older rifles prefer flat base bullets, not boat tails.

Long Lee metford/Enfields barrels were held at the barrel reinforce and at the lower barrel band only. The remainder of the barrel free floated with clearance in the nosecap. I have an 21 inch barreled 1896 with a sportered forearm, the barrel touches the wood at the very front tip and at the reinforce. The back end of the forearm is really tight at the back end where it fits between the draws and the butt socket band. The front trigger guard screw is cranked tight down to the screw bushing. The thing is a tack driver and works well for me out to 100yds. Good enough for my deer hunting.

So if different ammo doesn't change anything and your barrel bore and muzzle crown are good, then look at the bedding. Everything has to be tight, tight, tight on these puppies.
Click to expand...
 
Do a search - Mikeystew tried it recently and got detailed instructions form another forum member. Bedding a LE is close to witchcraft! FWIW - Free floating a LE barrel in a sporter stock doesnt work very well.
If you know someone that is familiar with Enfields, let them have a look at the fit of the forestock and barrel. Could be a relatively minor fix - for example, maybe the barrel is being overly forced by the forestock.
Alternatively, your barrel could be the culprit - the barrel you recently installed was used ... right...?
 
buffdog said:
Or, you could go to the Trade-ex Canada (sponsor link is above) and look at the variety of hunting rifles available, a good lot of them under $250. Some even have scopes.

There are sporterized rifles, factory sporter conversions, and even Husqvarna and Stiga sporting rifles in that price range. Lots of them have at least scope bases, and some have side safeties and other options. The 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge is an excellent deer cartridge and ammunition is fairly easy to find.
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Click to expand...

Tradex guns are pretty amazing - very good quality, prices and business. Plus the 6.5x55 round is great!


Red Herring said:
So, with that in mind, would it be best to bed the entire forarm, as opposed to free floating the barrel?
Click to expand...

Likely halfway between. As mikeystew noted in his post - LE bedding is about canceling or normalising barrel harmonics so that the bullet exists the barrel travelling in the same drection each time.

cosmic said:
Do a search - Mikeystew tried it recently and got detailed instructions form another forum member. Bedding a LE is close to witchcraft! FWIW - Free floating a LE barrel in a sporter stock doesnt work very well.
If you know someone that is familiar with Enfields, let them have a look at the fit of the forestock and barrel. Could be a relatively minor fix - for example, maybe the barrel is being overly forced by the forestock.
Alternatively, your barrel could be the culprit - the barrel you recently installed was used ... right...?
Click to expand...

Yep... mikeystews article will get you started out right. After that it's more internet research to figure out where to go next. You could very well get away with just running with it and seeing what happens, but that would be as much luck as anything else, so may as well do the reading first.
 
No. The barrel came with it and was likely rebarreled in the '20s. The barrel is somewhat dark, and I have had a hell of a time cleaning out the groves, but it looks like it should shoot well. However, it just won't group at all even close up. I'm talking like a 10 or 12 inch group at 25 yeard. It just shoots all over the place. I'll take the stock off tonight, and have a much closer look at it.. Come to think of it, I did epoxy what I think is The Damn Crack when I first inherited it some months ago. I shot it after that fix. I will try some different ammo, but I can't see ammo being that big a factor.

Off to look up the Mikeystew thread.
 
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