Lefty needs help on a diagnosis

knotty

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Hello all,
Recently, I've been shooting my 9mm and the results haven't been very satisfactory. Keeping in mind I'm a lefty, when I am aiming at the centre of an 8 1/2 x 11 target, my groupings all end up in the bottom right corner. I've tried tweaking my grip, changing my trigger finger position a bit, but no avail. They group all around 3" at around 10 yards. I am also still some what new to semi pistols. I've read the Canadian shooter instructional article for a lot of my technique help.
If someone has been in a situation like this and was able to figure it out, sharing would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
 
I'd say it's a flinch but if you're getting 3" groups at 10 yards that can't be the case.

Start with this video but look at it with a mirror.... :d Just reverse all the stuff for your situation. The basics are there though.

If it still keeps shooting low and right have some other good shootist try it. It may turn out to just be the sights are way off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzQIHN-LiI
 
I'd say it's a flinch but if you're getting 3" groups at 10 yards that can't be the case.

Start with this video but look at it with a mirror.... :d Just reverse all the stuff for your situation. The basics are there though.

If it still keeps shooting low and right have some other good shootist try it. It may turn out to just be the sights are way off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzQIHN-LiI
 
where in ontario are you? I'd say your subconsciously pulling into the recoil. At the range have a friend load the pistol when your not looking, and occasionally leave it with an empty chamber. If when the trigger breaks you see the pistol pull down suddenly, you have your answer. Best bet might be lots of dry fire practice. I just cured a fellow of this malady last weekend. Once you know whats going on, it's not hard to fix. You'll get it!
 
Hello all, Recently, I've been shooting my 9mm and the results haven't been very satisfactory. Keeping in mind I'm a lefty, when I am aiming at the centre of an 8 1/2 x 11 target, my groupings all end up in the bottom right corner. I've tried tweaking my grip, changing my trigger finger position a bit, but no avail. They group all around 3" at around 10 yards. I am also still some what new to semi pistols. I've read the Canadian shooter instructional article for a lot of my technique help. If someone has been in a situation like this and was able to figure it out, sharing would be greatly appreciated. thanks

You might have seen this already, but in any event ...

PistolChartL1t.jpg
 
As a fellow lefty or righty in mirror, you are probably overpowering the grip on the trigger pull. You may also have a slight strong wrist movement of your left hand as you pull the trigger. As the video above describes, various pressures you create and hand placements under stress of shooting - holding the gun and pulling the trigger - as you break the sear will cause all kinds of misalignment as the gun fires. Another thing that may happen during firing are your eyes closing as a reaction or anticipation of the muzzle blast. This is a normal human reaction that all good shooters overcome. Most don't have this sight flinch with a 22, but it is often seen with larger calibres. This also typically results in a total body flinch that you may not be aware of. Big flinches or pulls don't hit the target. Small ones see minor off target pulls. If you can try a different semi auto handgun, you may be able determine whether you are the primary cause of the push.

Often with a regular sight the movement seem small while dry firing. If you could put a laser on the gun, even one that goes in the bore, and dry fire the semi auto in single action mode you might see your issue. You definitely would see it in a double action pull as the trigger weight would accentuate the problem as the trigger breaks. Playing with your grip and trigger pull here will help build some sight picture and muscle memory. If you are only seeing the results of the flinch on the range, you could try both ear plugs and ear muffs, and possibly some darker glasses (sensory deprivation) until you know for sure you are not the cause. Another good and free technique is to stand near another shooter and try not to react. I can almost guarantee since you are not pulling the trigger, you body will react to the shooter's gun firing and you eyes will blink.

If you have a good grip on the above, have someone else that is a good shooter try your gun. Maybe it is the sight alignment.
 
You are most likely milking the gun. I posted the following on another forum earlier and it applies here. Hope it helps.


Grip the gun as hard as you can with both hands without causing tremors or degrading your ability to pull the trigger. For most people, this will be a lot firmer than they are used to or even think is correct. General rule of thumb; if you can hold full tension for more than 30 to 40 seconds you are probably not gripping firmly enough.

Accept that a certain amount of axial wobble is inevitable in an organic firing platform. However, realize that a A 2" axial wobble at the muzzle = a 2" group displacement on the target, which is very small. Nodal off axis or pivotal wobble is what we don't want, as small deflections at the muzzle = huge deflections down range.

While holding the gun in your steady-state hard grip and with sights aligned, prep the trigger to the wall of the sear or striker (if necessary, depending on the difficulty of the shot) and then rather than building pressure until the shot breaks, just commit to the shot and pull/jerk/yank it straight back through the wall. Note: you don't always have to prep the trigger. If the shot is easy/close you may be able to sweep the trigger through its entire range, breaking straight through the slack, the sear/striker wall and the over-travel, without deflecting your shots out of your intended zone. You mileage may vary so you will have to experiment to see what you can get away with at different distances. If your grip is correct you will be very surprised how far the target will be before you start missing.

Don't bother pinning the trigger back post-shot. Once the bullet has left the muzzle, no further follow-through is required or even productive, as you can no longer affect the bullets flight path. Just get your finger all the way off the trigger as quickly as you can and reset during the recoil phase. Basically, use the dead time during recoil to get the gun ready for the next shot. Also, don't bother trying to ride the sear or catch the link as that is a recipe for trigger freeze. Just get off it immediately and you will have plenty of time to be ready to shoot again the instant the gun recovers sufficiently to call your next shot.

Follow-through AS you make the shot, not after. In other words, see the sights settle on the spot you want to hit, hold them there and pull the trigger. What you see while the trigger is releasing is where the bullet will go. You may or may not see the sights begin to lift in recoil. If you are shooting multiple targets at warp speed, you will be driving your vision to the next target the instant the trigger is pulled. Seeing the sights begin to lift confirms the shot call, certainly, but it's a little slower than seeing the sights stop on the target, pulling through the wall, and just GO!

One of the major reasons people shoot low left or low right is grip inconsistency. The weak hand reflexively clenches as the trigger is pulled in a subconscious anticipation of recoil and we end up "milking" the gun down and away from our aiming point. If you are holding the gun as tight as you possibly can, the clenching cannot occur.

I know this will sound somewhat contrary to accepted technique doctrine, but it will work for you if give it a chance.
 
pull/jerk/yank it straight back through the wall.

Yes, develop his grip, especially his weak hand, and learn how his movement, pull/jerk/yank, can be done with the sight kept on POA. Too much hand tension will cause trigger finger issues, but the grip must be firm enough for consistency. In other words, you shouldn't have to readjust your grip after each shot. Also, with a good grip there should be little sight picture change after recoil.
 
You have many good handgun shooters in Ontario. See if you can take a class from someone, It's worth the money. I think a lot of new handgun shooters end up quitting after they become frustrated and all they needed was a few hours with a competent instructor.
 
Thanks for all the tips gents/ possible ladies. I kind of figured it's possibly grip related. That video was helpful. I believe it could be my weak hand that's allowing least path of resistance for recoil. As maybe a stronger grip on both hands. This is where I got most of my initial info, h ttps://canadianshooter.wordpress.com/. I've been looking for classes, as I do believe that would be the easiest and cheapest route to proper technique, just finding them.
I have memberships at kingston and lower trent.
 
like others said, it doesn't really matter lefty or right-handed. the problem is that you anticipated recoil and jerked the trigger which is very common for new shooter. I did that too two months ago.
To me, it was combination of things, but all common basics.

first, stance. try to use isosceles to begin with. it's very easy to pick up and help you balance the two hands, lock your wrist and elbow.
2nd, keep breathing during the trigger pull, don't hold your breath. slowly and evenly pull the trigger and focus on the front sight, don't think about when it goes BAM! To the point where it almost scares you when the gun fires. you are most likely NOT anticipating the recoil and hence no extra muscle movement to try to correct something that you shouldn't.
3. for the grip. it's easy. watch youtube, like Jerry Miculek and a few others. it's different between semi and revolver, but it's the easiest part out of all things as long as you watch the channels hosted by the right guys.


Hello all,
Recently, I've been shooting my 9mm and the results haven't been very satisfactory. Keeping in mind I'm a lefty, when I am aiming at the centre of an 8 1/2 x 11 target, my groupings all end up in the bottom right corner. I've tried tweaking my grip, changing my trigger finger position a bit, but no avail. They group all around 3" at around 10 yards. I am also still some what new to semi pistols. I've read the Canadian shooter instructional article for a lot of my technique help.
If someone has been in a situation like this and was able to figure it out, sharing would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
 
Don't look at charts or anything like that, don't worry about your grip or what part of your finger is on the trigger because its all nonsense. Purchase the dvd "Shooting Missology" from the training company Tactical Response (<---google it). As the instructor says, the money you spend on the dvd will help you 100x more than if you just spent the same money on ammo and continue doing what you've been doing. If you pay attention to what they teach and actually apply it you will see a massive improvement, I know because I've done it.
 
Thanks all for the help, I just went out. I through some snap caps in the mags randomly with the live ones. I found out I'm anticipating recoil. The shot after the snap cap, goes to center, then it works it's way back to lower right. Though not as bad as it was before. Thanks for all the help, now I know what to work on.
 
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