"Less lethal" 12G ammunition.

Doubletap

Doubletap

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I did a quick site search - but didn't come up with much.

Outside of arguments in regard to the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of "less lethal" 12G ammunition (plastic/rubber shot or slugs - beanbags and the like) in regard to home defense - can anyone tell me if this type of ammo is available legally in Canada?

Thanks in advance!
 
It's legal, but a dumb idea. If you need to shoot someone, you'd shoot to stop the attack, not to warn them or 'try to hurt them'. Also, as you noted it's 'less lethal', not non-lethal, so the potential to kill is always there, even if 'you didn't mean to'. That's a worse situation to be in.

If you are forced into a situation where you need to shoot someone, it better be your last option and in self defence or in the defence of others under your protection. In that situation, I wouldn't want half-assed ammo to save my life.

Odd first question... you will be accused of being a troll in short order.
 
Doubletap said:
I did a quick site search - but didn't come up with much.

Outside of arguments in regard to the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of "less lethal" 12G ammunition (plastic/rubber shot or slugs - beanbags and the like) in regard to home defense - can anyone tell me if this type of ammo is available legally in Canada?

Thanks in advance!
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You can buy "less lethal" 12 Ga. ammo at Margo Supply in High River Alberta. They sell it for the purposes of wildlife control:

http://margosupplies.com/public/canadian1/scare/12_gauge_carts.htm

I'll stay out of the debate about it's place in the home defense arsenal... ;)
 
canucklehead said:
It's legal, but a dumb idea. If you need to shoot someone, you'd shoot to stop the attack, not to warn them or 'try to hurt them'. Also, as you noted it's 'less lethal', not non-lethal, so the potential to kill is always there, even if 'you didn't mean to'. That's a worse situation to be in.

If you are forced into a situation where you need to shoot someone, it better be your last option and in self defence or in the defence of others under your protection. In that situation, I wouldn't want half-assed ammo to save my life.

Odd first question... you will be accused of being a troll in short order.
Click to expand...

Not really... maybe he just wants every type of shotgun ammunition in his possession? Maybe he just wants less lethal ammunition for the hell of it? Or to test its effects (on say, ballistic gel) You could always buy a reloading press and make your own.
 
Stumpfian said:
Not really... maybe he just wants every type of shotgun ammunition in his possession? Maybe he just wants less lethal ammunition for the hell of it? Or to test its effects (on say, ballistic gel) You could always buy a reloading press and make your own.
Click to expand...

You're right... I read 'in regards to home defence' in the post and missed the 'Outside of the arguments' part. :)

If you're trying to remake Jackass, I guess it COULD be useful...haha
 
I have some Fiocchi rubber batons in 12 g (high brass, nice little rounds)...Less lethal my ass. This thing would kill you to death.
 
canucklehead said:
It's legal, but a dumb idea. If you need to shoot someone, you'd shoot to stop the attack, not to warn them or 'try to hurt them'. Also, as you noted it's 'less lethal', not non-lethal, so the potential to kill is always there, even if 'you didn't mean to'. That's a worse situation to be in.

If you are forced into a situation where you need to shoot someone, it better be your last option and in self defence or in the defence of others under your protection. In that situation, I wouldn't want half-assed ammo to save my life.

Odd first question... you will be accused of being a troll in short order.
Click to expand...

What he said.
As you were talking self defence, dont bother with it.
If i point a firearm at anything that breaths my intent is to kill it not make it run away.
Min force rules dont apply to firearms.
bbb
 
Ha ha - I knew I should have left the words "home defense" out of the query - my bad!

I'm afraid I wasn't trolling - please refer to my join date. I come and go with hobbies - and was once pretty active on this forum, though it appears my post count was zeroed during my hiatus.

I have a number of reasons to ask about "less lethal" - though I know there are hundreds more opinions on the subject, than there are types of "less lethal" ammunition. I have my own opinions, and am not likely to be swayed from them.

Besides - for me a firearm is the "less lethal" alternative for defense, should someone manage to evade the first line. Five minutes of attention from the Ridgebacks and they would be begging for a chamber full of double-ought.

tsavotrue.jpg


Thank you for your reply's, gentlemen.
 
If you need ammunition to make a shotgun "Less" lethal you're doing it wrong.

images18.jpg


No worries about grabbing the wrong round in the heat of the moment.

"Nothing like a good piece of hickory" Clint Eastwood, Pale Rider.
 
I love your dogs


Doubletap said:
Ha ha - I knew I should have left the words "home defense" out of the query - my bad!

I'm afraid I wasn't trolling - please refer to my join date. I come and go with hobbies - and was once pretty active on this forum, though it appears my post count was zeroed during my hiatus.

I have a number of reasons to ask about "less lethal" - though I know there are hundreds more opinions on the subject, than there are types of "less lethal" ammunition. I have my own opinions, and am not likely to be swayed from them.

Besides - for me a firearm is the "less lethal" alternative for defense, should someone manage to evade the first line. Five minutes of attention from the Ridgebacks and they would be begging for a chamber full of double-ought.

tsavotrue.jpg


Thank you for your reply's, gentlemen.
Click to expand...
 
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wolfface said:
I love your dogs, my son cannot be around dogs (allergies). If he ever grows out of it I would be getting a ridgeback.................. you know hunting lions and all LOL
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They are a great breed - and very nearly hypo-allergenic when compared to dogs that have fur, rather than the hair that RR's have.

Another bonus is that they have kept the backyard "lion free" for a number of years, now!
 
canucklehead said:
It's legal, but a dumb idea. If you need to shoot someone, you'd shoot to stop the attack, not to warn them or 'try to hurt them'. Also, as you noted it's 'less lethal', not non-lethal, so the potential to kill is always there, even if 'you didn't mean to'. That's a worse situation to be in.

If you are forced into a situation where you need to shoot someone, it better be your last option and in self defence or in the defence of others under your protection. In that situation, I wouldn't want half-assed ammo to save my life.

Odd first question... you will be accused of being a troll in short order.
Click to expand...

i would have to agree with this statement.

the other issue is that to point a gun or to shoot it, regardless of what is in in all falls under the same area under the eyes of the law.

the issue that you may get into if you should have to use the gun is that by owning less lethal ammunition, one could argue that you INTENDED to use it.

However, if you shoot someone with lethal ammo, you can then "change" your story.

Example:

Someone breaks in. You unlock your shotgun. Load it just in case and proceed to check out the situation (after calling the cops of course ;) )

However, if you have the less lethal ammo, you are faced with 1 of two choices.

1. You keep the gun loaded at all times with said ammo.
2. You load the gun with the ammo should you feel the need to.

Problems:

1. If it is proven that you kept it loaded at all times, or that you bought the ammo strictly for home defense, you get into the issues of intent and culpability; you intended to shoot someone.

2. if you only load the ammo when someone breaks in, then you fall into the issue that canucklehead touches on, which is why bother? If your worried or fearing for your life, dont trust the less lethal ammo.

Lastly, the intruder, then becomes a victim. With a life, a story and injuries. He can sue you for everything you're worth. I asked a cop about home defense once. He said this:

Shoot to kill. Who will the jury believe? The dead intruder, or the man protecting his family?

There are obvious stipulations to this, such as shooting someone in the back etc

Now in no way do i support killing someone, and i pray that i never have to use my firearms in any kind of defense applications, but if i ever have to, i want the problem to stop there. in no way do i want it to continue in court.
 
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