Lets see you 1877 Colt double actions!!!

[loki_81]

I was under the impression single action is harder on these guns than double action?

There are some variables here.

1; Violently cocking the hammer with your thumb fast and hard tends to exert more wear, antique or modern.

2; Fanning the hammer with one hand and keeping the trigger depressed is incredibly hard on single action. Might be fun and look cool but you can guarantee to require repairs sooner than if treated with care. If you want to do this type of shooting do it on a affordable Uberti .

Basically a consistent cocking cycle without any extreme force on the hammer past it's cocking point is the best way you can operate single action. With those variables out of the way single action can be much gentler on the old parts than double.

This doesn't mean a DA gun can't be ran in DA, double action in a consistent and careful trigger operation can operate the gun nearly as gently as single action. However care to not rapid fire and slap the trigger should be taken, and the trigger should be allowed to fully reset if you want to keep the original condition and not have to repair it. In the case of newer antique shooters it's just easier to tell them to run single action to avoid damage to the gun until they develop a good trigger technique.

Hope that helps.

 

[tokguy]

I'd say that SA is easier on these old guns. At least one can verify that everything is lined up correctly, and I've an '89 Colt.
Now there is a delicate revolver. I recall a thread about '89's; which are close cousins to the '77's. Someone in this thread stated they had one that ' Locked up like a bank Vault '. I would have to express doubt at that statement.
If a '77 has much in common with the '89's...they never locked up 'like a bank vault'.
Heck, '92's are not even much better and they have a cylinder stop. '77's and '89's don't even have a cylinder stop.
BTW I've handled Thunderers but never got to take one apart...yet. But I will

 

[Drillbit]

Here's mine!

 

[dingus]

Heres mine its not a DA but its a real Sherifs model SAA colt made in 1877
Really a sweet gun best one ive found yet its been recase coloured but its made in 1877 and has the correct marks for a sherifs model includeing a tiny S on the frame.
This ones in 455/ 45 schofield very rare hard to find gun.

 

[loki_81]

Heres mine its not a DA but its a real Sherifs model SAA colt made in 1877
Really a sweet gun best one ive found yet its been recase coloured but its made in 1877 and has the correct marks for a sherifs model includeing a tiny S on the frame.
This ones in 455/ 45 schofield very rare hard to find gun.

Interesting.

Do you happen to have a factory letter to verify the authenticity of it being a sheriffs?

 

[gutinater]

Is mine with a factory 2-1/2" barrel a sherrif or storekeeps model? Where is the S located?

 

[dingus]

Is mine with a factory 2-1/2" barrel a sherrif or storekeeps model? Where is the S located?

Im not sure on the 1877 DA thunders if they stamped them with and S or not. Im still researching mine theres also a double inspectors mark in the hammer well on mine the big C which is the right inspector for 1877 made SAA Colts but mine has a tiny 0 to up above the C so its intresting it should only have the C not the 0 as well. the S on mine is on the back end of the frame where the back strap attachs to the frame just below the screw hole. yours looks to be a sherrifs model to me. im no expert on DA thunder Colts tho or there markings.
the markings on colts are intresting. i have a list of all the inspectors and when they worked at Colt.
I always take the trigger gard and back strap off to check if the loading gate number matchs the number stamped under the trigger gard on the frame thats how i found the markings on my sherrifs model. tho alot were made from regular SAA BP framed colts to so you have to be carefull. i dont care either way as im keeping mine there so nice to point and shoot being so light weight.

 

[loki_81]

Is mine with a factory 2-1/2" barrel a sherrif or storekeeps model? Where is the S located?

The problem there is yours, like the one posted by Dingus above, requires a factory letter to prove it to be, or not to be, a storekeepers or sheriffs. It could very well be a storekeeper/sheriff, and it may not be as well. To be 100% sure requires a factory letter and anything else is a guess unless verified by an expert like Kopec (would still back up a Kopec letter with a factory to be 100%).

It's also worth mentioning that some nefarious individuals in the lifetime of the gun may have altered the Colt very convincingly in the pursuit of financial gain, and to do so they may have gathered and used period correct frames and parts. Who know's what's happened in the lifetime of that Colt (not saying that's what anyone here has done for the record). If spending the extra amount to aquire, or reallly just looking to keep a good investment around, it's worth having the factory letter.

Im not sure on the 1877 DA thunders if they stamped them with and S or not. Im still researching mine theres also a double inspectors mark in the hammer well on mine the big C which is the right inspector for 1877 made SAA Colts but mine has a tiny 0 to up above the C so its intresting it should only have the C not the 0 as well. the S on mine is on the back end of the frame where the back strap attachs to the frame just below the screw hole. yours looks to be a sherrifs model to me. im no expert on DA thunder Colts tho or there markings.
I have a SAA colt with LAS stamped on it its a factory SAA colt conversion to 22 magnum has LAS who was a Inspector in the 1940s so the other gun i have was a factory conversion.
the markings on colts are intresting. i have a list of all the inspectors and when they worked at Colt.
I always take the trigger gard and back strap off to check if the loading gate number matchs the number stamped under the trigger gard on the frame thats how i found the markings on my sherrifs model. tho alot were made from regular SAA BP framed colts to so you have to be carefull. i dont care either way as im keeping mine there so nice to point and shoot being so light weight.

I'm going through my reference material and have to say that it would be news to me that a "S" has any meaning toward sheriffs model. Don't get me wrong I could be learning something new here, but this is the first I've heard of it and it's not documented anywhere I can find. Mind sharing your reference please? Would love to learn something new and maybe add a new anecdote to the antique database with your permission (after verification of the meaning of course).

At the moment it's seeming much more likely to have been a inspectors mark after re-inspection that has been worn down with multiple refinishes possibly wearing off the rest. Those patent dates are worn, and it looks like there could be remnants of the tip of the US martial marking near the patent dates. A worn down inspectors mark in this case shouldn't be ruled out.

The "C" could also mean condemned. At the moment I'm not aware of an inspector with a single C marking in 1877 making condemned parts likely, but of course this could require more research. That would in any case be a unique place for an inspectors mark, or the condemned mark.

How blunted from the refinish is the frame serial numbers? It'd be interesting to know if it has inspectors marks or if they were perhaps removed with a refinish, which would be a shame.

Of course if you have a factory letter saying it's a sheriffs or storekeeper then you know beyond a shadow of a doubt .

 

[loki_81]

Lets see some pics of your 1877 Colt lightnings/thunderers. Heres my completely original (every spec matches the colt letter) 1896 manufactured 100% mechanically working 2.5" barrelled storekeeper model thunderer in .41 LC. The bore and cylinders are nearly mint. The box of .410 Eley (the British equivalent to .41 short colt) is the closest thing Ive been able to find in Canada to original ammo. I do have a box of .41 LC Ultramax but doesnt look as good with the old girl.

Haha, looks like I forgot that you have a factory letter in the first post. I'm doing too many things at once

Original barrel length is 2 1/2", quite likely a sheriffs. Neat gun.

 

[gutinater]

Yes I was just gonna say I do have a colt letter. what makes it a sherrifs vs a storekeepers? The barrel length?

 

[dingus]

I dont think the Colt factory letters say if there store keeper or sheriffs models just list the barrel length and the grips when it was shiped ect there not as full of information as you think.
There expensive to compared to Roy Jinks S&W Letters which are $50 the colt letters are like $300 i think unless they went down and offer less info. Some dont even list the barrel length, i have a bunch of colt factory letters and they dont impress me to much.
I have one for a SAA colt it does not list the barrel length so you could pay $300 and not even get that info its a crap shoot.
Im keeping this gun cause i like its feel and ballance so much its the frist really short barreled SAA colt ive had and i must say i like it with 6 gr trail boss loads in 45 sch case it will pack a good punch.
Im still looking into its history chaseing down its path to me the C im talking about was the inspector that stamps the inside the hammerslot the 1873 1874 and 1875s SAA colts all have the letter C in the hammer slot in the frame 1876 has HC in 1877 there was a C and a P inspector initals .
This is from the peace maker encyclopeida im not makeing this stuff up LOL It does not meen its a condemed gun its and inspectors mark almost all SAA colts pre 1898 have that mark in the hammer slot above the fireing pin hole except the 1897 guns they have no marking in there at all.
The weird thing with my gun is theres also a tiny O in the uper hammer slots left corner thats a diffrent inspector. and the S stamped on the back of the frame is odd to.
There is no US marking or remains of a US marking on the gun your seeing camra tricks there. i can read all the patent dates no problem.
The serial number is in the 33000s the loading gate number matchs the under trigger gard number.
i measured the left side with calipers and if this was a regular BP frame with and ejector tube base they did the best job of getting rid of it on this gun as its perfect the same on both sides.
The barrel is not orignal tho. There was and inspector S in 1885 so maby the gun was sent back for work .
I will see if i can find a colt expert in the USA its for sure a strange gun.
That Colt peracemaker encyclopedia is a great sorce of info eh.

I have another antique BP framed SAA colt that went back to the factory in the 1940s to be rechambered into a rimfire and the work they did was really hi quality its all stamped with the colt factory inspectors initals of that time period.

This is from another book i have and this is why i think its a early store keepers or sheriffs model they only call them store keepers in this book tho.
It says inspector R .E . Courtnay of the Colt Company, that at frist a special type of frame was employed and on later orders colt just ground down the ejector tube base part from regular colt SAAs and made them that way. so the factory ended up doing the sheriffs models the way people makeing fakes did by grinding down the frame.
mine being and early serial number and perfect shape equal on both sides with a mic theres a very good chance its a factory made gun.
all we can do is base stuff on info we find in colt books. this ones called colt firearms from 1836 its a good book if you can find it. intresting how at frist they made the frames from scratch then as time went on out came the grinders to save costs. I guess when your compeating with S&W and Remington you gota do stuff like that.

 

[loki_81]

I dont think the Colt factory letters say if there store keeper or sheriffs models just list the barrel length and the grips when it was shiped ect there not as full of information as you think.
There expensive to compared to Roy Jinks S&W Letters which are $50 the colt letters are like $300 i think unless they went down and offer less info. Some dont even list the barrel length, i have a bunch of colt factory letters and they dont impress me to much.
I have one for a SAA colt it does not list the barrel length so you could pay $300 and not even get that info its a crap shoot.

That's not entirely correct .

As you can see they clearly list the storekeeper, that is from a SAA letter. I've seen the same with sherrifs models as well. At the very least if the barrel length is unusual they will have the short barrel listed.

Finally just for reference sake when a Colt factory letter has a part as not listed as is typically the case with stocks they also sometimes write in the comments section something like "As mentioned above the factory records do not indicate the type of stock, but due to the period this typically indicates ######X" (###### being typical type of stocks or whatever missing part for the period and model).

I've never met a factory letter I didn't like, to me they're worth every penny.

 

[loki_81]

Heres mine its not a DA but its a real Sherifs model SAA colt made in 1877
Really a sweet gun best one ive found yet its been recase coloured but its made in 1877 and has the correct marks for a sherifs model includeing a tiny S on the frame.
This ones in 455/ 45 schofield very rare hard to find gun.

Ahh there we go, just took me a bit to locate the information;

"The Sheriffs or Storekeepers model is numbered above serial #73000. It was manufactured with various finishes and chambered in numerous calibers. This model continued after 1898 into the smokeless or modern era. Examples manufactured in the pre-war years are worth approx 20% less. Although faking this model is quite difficult, it has been successfully attempted." - Standard Catalog of Handguns, PG #123

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Dingus but it appears yours is altered from a full sized SAA being as how the Sheriffs started in 1882 or the 73000 serial range.

 

[dingus]

Ok well i wasnt 100 % sure and you cant be without the factory letter. thats intersting about the Serial number when they started my colt books said the early serial numbered guns were made from there own frames.
The truth is the Colt factory did make the sheriffs models the same way with altered BP frames on the later guns only the very early frist bunch of BP guns were made from there own frame acording to my colt book .
Oh well i dont feel so bad haveing to sell it now as i wasnt sure your info makes that easyer now that i know for sure.
I do have a few SAA colt letters that do not list the barrel length and they are expensive compared to the S&W letters.

One thing tho the extra inspector marks on my gun could be from the colt factory if someone sent the gun back to colt to have them do the altering to a sheriffs model.
So it could very well be why there is the extra inspectors marks the S and the tiny 0
Lots of guns get sent back to be changed or redone i have one that was converted from 44 40 to rimfire in the 1940s.
But at least i now know it wasnt done pre 1898 by the factory but its a storekeepers or sheriffs model tho regardless and could very well have been done later in the factory.

Also if you look at the 1877 DA Thunder Factory Colt letter thats posted in this thread by the OP it does NOT list it as a store keepers or sheriffs model when it clearly is as by the barrel length.
and his gun is listed as haveing a 2 and 3/4 or short barrel on that letter so it has to be a storekeepers model.
So the Colt Factory do not list every one like that letter you found as Storekeeper model.