I am handloading the lovely 455. However I have just seen a vintage diagram that has the rounds loaded with a cardboard disc over the powder and am wondering if this is the route I have to go. I am using a 265 grain hollow based bullet, powder used will either be win231 or bullseye any info you have would be greatly appreciated. Never used a over powder disc before so am wondering what to use if I have to go this route. Thanks in advance for which could be an interesting thread look forward to seeing some data. Cheers
Let's Talk about 455
- Thread starter JHC-II
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Johnn Peterson
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I have a Webley Mk. VI I reload for.
I get a cast bullet, that sounds much like yours, from a friend locally. Here's some reload info I've scanned from an old 1st edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook that may be of some help to you.
Most of the loads I've used are with Unique and lately I've been trying some with Trailboss. With these powders, an over powder card wad isn't required.
About the only cartridge I have used any type of wad over the powder is in the light cast bullet loads in the 45-70 with powders like Unique, 2400 and IMR 4227. Instead of a card wad, something I've found to work well is a low density Foam Backer Rod made by Tago. It's a caulking and sealant material for stopping drafts. One batch of this I have is 1/2" diameter and comes in a 20' length. What I do is charge the case with a specific powder, insert a pencil to determine how much space is available. Then minus the seating depth of the bullet and cut the foam backer rod to a length to take up the space. I then roll it slightly between my fingers and insert it in the case.
At first I was concerned with the possible residue deposit of the foam in the barrel but I've never found that to be an issue. Looking off to the side when I touch off one of these loads, compared to a round without the over powder foam spacer, it looks like a puff of dust and no residue left behind.
I get a cast bullet, that sounds much like yours, from a friend locally. Here's some reload info I've scanned from an old 1st edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook that may be of some help to you.
Most of the loads I've used are with Unique and lately I've been trying some with Trailboss. With these powders, an over powder card wad isn't required.
About the only cartridge I have used any type of wad over the powder is in the light cast bullet loads in the 45-70 with powders like Unique, 2400 and IMR 4227. Instead of a card wad, something I've found to work well is a low density Foam Backer Rod made by Tago. It's a caulking and sealant material for stopping drafts. One batch of this I have is 1/2" diameter and comes in a 20' length. What I do is charge the case with a specific powder, insert a pencil to determine how much space is available. Then minus the seating depth of the bullet and cut the foam backer rod to a length to take up the space. I then roll it slightly between my fingers and insert it in the case.
At first I was concerned with the possible residue deposit of the foam in the barrel but I've never found that to be an issue. Looking off to the side when I touch off one of these loads, compared to a round without the over powder foam spacer, it looks like a puff of dust and no residue left behind.
Generally speaking you don't need or want a wad in an application like this, except possibly for black powder. In fact with some powders the wad will increase your chamber pressure remarkably. You should only use a wad if a reliable source tells you to - reliable sources being published reloading manuals and online data from powder and bullet makers. Ignore the rest.
What revolver are you loading for and what brass are you using -is it .455 MKII made by hornady or something else?
What revolver are you loading for and what brass are you using -is it .455 MKII made by hornady or something else?
Military spec diagrams are about as honest as they go and my reloading data is coming from manuals both current and vintage. I have a plethora of brass to choose from corto, mk1, mk11, kynoch, fiochi, Remington & of course dominion 455 colt as for guns I've got 4 to choose from webley, graff, and two versions of s&w. Original rounds both mark 1 and 11 under different manufacturers have cardboard over wads I know as I have just dissected 6 rounds from different makers vintage ammo of course. Cheers
Yes. But unless you KNOW what powder is in those disected rounds and the military spec diagrams it doesn't mean anything.
If you find a recipe with a wad from a reliable source like a reloading manual then by all means use it. Just don't assume you have to add a wad to existing load data because that could be dangerous with most of the smokeless pistol powders. Unique and bullseye for instance are very sensitive to loading density and it's easy to induce a pressure spike by altering case capacity, and adding a wad is effectively doing just that.
I asked what case you are using because load data is specific to case capaciity. A load that is perfectly safe in a MKI .455 or a .455 colt eley case can produce double or greater pressure in the MKII case. A lot of people don't grasp that right away and if you are asking for load data you really need to get data specific to the cartridge case you are using.
For instance - if you took MKI .455 data using bullseye powder and used it in a MKII case you could conceivably induce 20-30K chamber pressure. If you were to arbitrarily add a wad to that mixture you could be well over 40,000 psi with some powders, and especially Bullseye. Shooting that cartridge could be a very exciting event in some of the old pistols.
That's why I asked which case you were planning on using since you were asking for load data. But by all means feel free to do whatever you want and it's fine with me.
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Thanks for your comments. Fully realizing already about the differences in reference to the cases and the differences in pressures that can arrise from using different types of brass, yes I am sure it would rattle a webley apart in but just a matter of rounds. Yes you are absolutely correct in that not knowing what the powder is in the military and civillian rounds means nothing, but was only passing but my humble observation of that of the six rounds dissected, I should truely have been more clear in the original post no thanks im not looking for reloading data but more so a greater understanding of the use of cardboard wad over powder as it is my first foray with the possibility of having to use an over powder disc. Yes it would be the fool to try and turbo charge a webley. I have had the pleasure of being a very diligent and safe handloader for over thirty years but was just trying to wrap my head around the disc over powder, if in any way I have offended again humblest apologies.
No offense taken. I thought you were looking for load data when you said you were looking forward to seeing data.
In a MKII .455 webley cartridge, 4.2 - 4.5 gr of Unique with the 265 gr HB bullet is a very good load, plenty stout enough to bump up the skirt of the bullet. Quickload estimates 12K psi. I don't use Bullseye but a friend uses 3.6 gr Bullseye in the MKII cartridge with 265 gr HB bullet and has good results with it.
In a MKI or Colt .455 cartridge, 6.0 gr Unique is a good load. I have no experiience with Bullseye in the MKI cartridge.
In the .45acp or .45autorim cartridge used in a webley with a shaved cylinder, 5.0 gr of Unique is a nice load with the 265 gr HB bullet. It is not max but it is healthy.
In a MKII .455 webley cartridge, 4.2 - 4.5 gr of Unique with the 265 gr HB bullet is a very good load, plenty stout enough to bump up the skirt of the bullet. Quickload estimates 12K psi. I don't use Bullseye but a friend uses 3.6 gr Bullseye in the MKII cartridge with 265 gr HB bullet and has good results with it.
In a MKI or Colt .455 cartridge, 6.0 gr Unique is a good load. I have no experiience with Bullseye in the MKI cartridge.
In the .45acp or .45autorim cartridge used in a webley with a shaved cylinder, 5.0 gr of Unique is a nice load with the 265 gr HB bullet. It is not max but it is healthy.
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They are good for revolvers built for .455 webley or .476 enfield cartridge, including the black powder webleys. They are medium pressure loads and won't go over 12,000 psi when used with a soft cast 265 gr HB bullet.
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