Level 2 IPSC Match Stage Approval

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Is Ontario the only IPSC Canada Section that requires stage approval from the board for Lvl 2 matches? Or do you have to get approval from your various section boards?

And as a follow up, do you think that Section approval is needed or even required?
 
Not sure what the other sections do but it couldn't be easier with VF, send the stages and he says yay or nay, usually yay. I had no problem sending and getting the Sharon stages approved, and I've sent him about a dozen more to get them pre-approved. It's a nice check to make sure the clubs are following IPSC rules with their stage designs, probably should have Level I's getting approved too. Personally I'd like to see the decision for it being a Level I or II being based on that approval, If you have over 75 rounds in your match (the recommended minimum required for a Level II) you are automatically a Level II and then the RO's get the points they should be getting for that size of match.
 
I think the problem is we have come to see the process as a confrontational one. For me setting up the match it's nice to have someone who know the rules look it over, think of it as a second set of eyes. Setting up matches shouldn't be an 'us vs. Them' situation. But over the years we have seen some clubs have what we refer to as inbreeding, where the 'club' rules and what they do for club matches bleed over into what they want to do for sanctioned matches.
I'll double check the minutes of the club rep meetings but I believe I recall V putting forward the idea of having more local representatives take care of some of the sanctioning and it was not wanted.
 
Yeah, check the October Club reps meeting minutes and you can see the discussion.
You'll also see a note in there from MrClean. Once upon a time level I and II matches had to be actually visited by the sanctioning personel and only when they saw it on the ground did it get approved. Emailing it off for approval isn't that big of a deal. And within IPSC rules.
What is it you want to do in a match that you don't think will be sanctioned?
 
I am not being confrontational? What I am is questioning the logic, and wonder what the requirements are in the rest of the country? If it is not required, should we not ask why we need it here in Ontario? The rules are pretty straight forward, and if a club puts on a match that is outside of the rules, then they no longer get sanctioning, or have to submit stages thereafter. But why make everyone else do it if they are staying within the rules?
 
The rules state that in is up to the section to decide what the santioning for lvl 2 should be, no? So it is not required as far as the rules are stated! I have no particular stage sent in for review as yet that I am concerned about.
 
Lol...I wasn't saying YOU were being confrontation, just that some seem to think
the process ends up as a confrontational one. V gave me a fair bit of leeway with what I wanted to do as long as it doesn't break any rules, and was quite helpful.
 
No problem, always question things. I just don't see it as a big deal, I like someone else looking over the stage in case I missed something. I find it helpful.
 
Here in bc we get approval for lv 2 matches, i dont mind it, it nice to have some different eyes onthe match copy and input if something is off.
 
If it is not required, should we not ask why we need it here in Ontario? The rules are pretty straight forward, and if a club puts on a match that is outside of the rules, then they no longer get sanctioning, or have to submit stages thereafter...

Sorry to say, but people tend to forget the boundaries and let certain things slip trough that may appear as various DQ or RO traps (usually worked around by reworking the walk trough) or even safety issues. Those kind of things are better debugged before the match and sanctioning supposed to help with that. Basically look at it as another set of eyes.

PS: I still don't understand why EESA crew is so defensive about their stages and take any comments almost as a personal insult or something... you guys are doing a great job in there and have nothing to worry about :cool:
 
Sorry to say, but people tend to forget the boundaries and let certain things slip trough that may appear as various DQ or RO traps (usually worked around by reworking the walk trough) or even safety issues. Those kind of things are better debugged before the match and sanctioning supposed to help with that. Basically look at it as another set of eyes.

I am not saying my experience in this area is huge, definitely is very little compared to a lot, but what exactly is your experience in submitting stages, researching rules for putting stages together?


PS: I still don't understand why EESA crew is so defensive about their stages and take any comments almost as a personal insult or something... you guys are doing a great job in there and have nothing to worry about :cool:

Where in this thread was I bringing up specific examples. It was a question, nothing more! And why would I/we be worried about anything? I am a big fan of smaller governance for everything. If someone goes astray, they get spanked, and sanctioned. But why put an added level of bureaucracy on people if it is not needed?
 
I am not saying my experience in this area is huge, definitely is very little compared to a lot, but what exactly is your experience in submitting stages, researching rules for putting stages together?

I have a first hand experience from another side of the fence. Being a competitor who found a hole in one of the stages and been awarded for that. A free-style stages should simply don't allow this kind of thing.

Where in this thread was I bringing up specific examples. It was a question, nothing more! And why would I/we be worried about anything? I am a big fan of smaller governance for everything. If someone goes astray, they get spanked, and sanctioned. But why put an added level of bureaucracy on people if it is not needed?

I didn't say it was only in this thread. It is not the first time and not even second... :)
Anyways, Pat already explained how it can be useful in some cases.
 
I have a first hand experience from another side of the fence. Being a competitor who found a hole in one of the stages and been awarded for that. A free-style stages should simply don't allow this kind of thing.

So that is great, you found a specific example of how the sanctioning system failed!



I didn't say it was only in this thread. It is not the first time and not even second... :)

And you brought it up why?

Anyways, Pat already explained how it can be useful in some cases.

So in some cases, if a match director wants some help, I think a peer review system could be handy!
 
Because you are wasting your energy on figting thing not worth to be fought for.

I appreciate you telling me what is and is not worth fighting for! And also for the direction of my energy!


Here is the problem. Generally not all match directors may know when to want help...

So I guess I will pen you in for the "Big Government" movement!
 
I think having someone look over and approve the stages is a good idea. I like to have a impartial person look them over. That person may see something you may have missed. I know that at times a stage designer may get to attached to what they are trying to accomplish with a stage and not look at it impartially.

You can also look at it from a shooters perspective, they can be more sure they won't come across something screwy or potentially dangerous. Sanctioning is in a small way a "seal of approval" that the diagrams and walkthrough at the very least followed the rules. However it is up to the club volunteers at that point to make sure it is built in the spirit of the stages submitted and with that it remains within the rules of IPSC. When a shooter spends his time and money to go to a match that could be a few hours drive and possibly even a hotel room he/she @ least has some assurances. That is where spanking offenders after the fact doesn't help.

Sometimes you may also have new club reps or stage designers that either think they don't need help, don't know they need help or just plan don't want anyone telling them what they can and can't do. We also can't have a two tier system that would say "hey Jim you are OK, John you are OK, Fred you are OK too but Billy not you." How would this be fair? Who would decide who is on the OK side and who is not? How much crap do you think a system like that would stir up? By having a rule, that was decided upon by the section, that says ALL lvl II matches must be approved it solves that issue and protects the shooter and the organization. It's not just about a club or personalities at clubs, it is also about the organization.
 
I think that it is a waste of time, space and energy that could best be utilized in other worthwhile pursuits.


I agree with 7.62. If particular clubs are problematic then deal with them as clubs and nto make every club jump through hoops.

The IPSC rules are QUITE clear that it is optional. When things are Optional I always opt fo the option that is the least intrusive.
 
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