light loads

biggles

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Location
Ontario
This is probably a stupid question but here goes anyway.

Being new to reloading & perusing all the (303) loads I can find. I understand that most charts show a starting load & a max. load.
The max. load is easy to understand..presumably exceed & you might strain the action or even blow up.

But what about the starting load.
If the chart says 35 grains & you drop it to 34 or 33 what then?. What if you drop it to 20 grains?.
I presume at some point (4 or 5 grains) you will get the bullet stuck in the barrel but what about the wide range between, what are the dangers?.

Not planning on trying this, but I am curious.

Thanks,
Peter (Burlington, Ontario)
 
Reducing powder charges below start loads can lead to problems with slow burning powders, including detonation and wrecked rifles. It is best not to go below the starting loads.

If a reduced velocity below the starting load is what you want follow the loading manuals advice (Lyman is a good one) and select the proper powder and bullet to give you the velocity you want.

With suitable bullets and powder the .303 can be reloaded to equal factory loads down to .22 rimfire velocity.

Be careful and ask questions first.

There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers.

Cheers
 
I was curious about this also as I wanted to do a reduced load for my son using the .30-06. Apparently, using IMR SR4759 is a good way to go as it allows the case to be filled to a safe level. Using a 165grn soft nose it can be safely brought down to about .30-30 levels of recoil. My research has led me to believe that reducing powder levels using a standard powder can be very dangerous.

Just my .02 cents, happy shooting
 
IMR or H 4895 can be loaded way down safely in rifle loads, down as low as one third of starting loads. Slower burners, as has been mentions are best kept at minimum listeed or higher. Regards, Eagleye.
 
safe light loads

The reason I brought this up in the first place is:

-increased life for the 303 brass, last week I shot 25 rounds (36 grains of IMR
4895 & 174 grain bullet) & had 2 cracked cases. It was their 2nd firing (or
first reload) & yes the headspace has been checked. 10% wastage a week
is a bit costly.
-reduced powder use (less $)
-less kick in my #5

I am only shooting paper at 50 yards so I don't care what the velocity is & paper dies real easy.

So if I am understanding correctly, slow burning powders cannot be reduced without the danger of detonation???.

Peter
 
The reason I brought this up in the first place is:

-increased life for the 303 brass, last week I shot 25 rounds (36 grains of IMR
4895 & 174 grain bullet) & had 2 cracked cases. It was their 2nd firing (or
first reload) & yes the headspace has been checked. 10% wastage a week
is a bit costly.
-reduced powder use (less $)
-less kick in my #5

I am only shooting paper at 50 yards so I don't care what the velocity is & paper dies real easy.

So if I am understanding correctly, slow burning powders cannot be reduced without the danger of detonation???.

Peter

Are you full length sizing the fired brass?

Many .303s, especially Lee Enfields, have rather large chambers at the shoulder, fired brass almost looking like it was fired in an 'improved' chamber. If this brass is full length sized it will move the shoulder back then when it is fired it again stretches forward, this will lead to premature bass failure, even case-head separation.

The solution is to only size the brass enough to enter the chamber and no more. This should extend your case life. Cartridges reloaded with partial sizing may not fit other chambers, a point to keep in mind.

Maximum loads will also reduce case life, even with partial sizing.

Reduced loads of 4895/ H4895 , 3031, 4198, will not be a problem. Detonation is a peculiar problem with large capacity magnum cases where loaders have used reduced loads of much slower powders than you would use in a .303, and even then so far as I know it has not been experienced under controlled tests. If anyone has more up-to-date info please chime in.

To be safe, if you are shooting at 50 yards , even 100 to 200 yards, and power isn't important, I strongly recommend you use an appropriate powder for reduced loads.

For a long time (like 50 years) I have been using SR 4759 for reduced loads in rifle cartridges, as that is what it was designed to do and is entirely safe. There are other newer powders available but my experience has been with SR 4759 and that is what I would suggest.



Hope this helps.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
Read this article:

Red Dot in Reduced Rifle Loads

"The Load" is 13 Grains of Red Dot" (In most strong-actioned, military rifles of .30 cal. or larger)
READ ON FOR SPECIFICS AND WARNINGS!


By C.E. (Ed) Harris, Revised 2-16-94
Red Dot is bulky, compared to the usual rifle powders used in .30-06 size cases. It occupies more powder space in typical charges than common "reduced load" rifle powders, such as #2400, IMR4227, IMR4198 or RL-7. The lower bulk density of Red Dot adequately addresses my safety concerns because it makes an accidental double charge far less likely.

"The Load" has distinct advantages over more expensive alternatives, within certain limitations, which are:

1. The case must be LARGER than the .300 Savage or .35 Remington.

2. The rifle must be of MODERN (post 1898) design, suitable for smokeless powder, with a bore size of .30 cal. or larger.

3. The bullet weight must be within the NORMAL range for the given cartridge.

4. Inert fillers such as Dacron, kapok or are NOT RECOMMENDED! (Nor are they necessary).

Gas-checked cast bullets required in the .30 cals., otherwise you will get leading, but plain-based ones work fine in the 8mm Mauser or larger.

"The Load" has shown complete success in the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65 Argentine, .308 Win., 7.62x54R Russian, .30-06, 8x57 and .45-70.

"The Load" fills 50% or more of a .308 Win or .30-'06 case. The risk of an accidental double charge is greatly reduced, because the blunder is immediately obvious if you visually check, powder fill on EVERY CASE, as you should whenever hand-loading! A bulky powder measures more uniformly, because normal variation in the measured volume represents a smaller percentage of the charge weight.

Red Dot's granulation is somewhat less coarse than other flake powders of similar burning rate, such as 700-X, which aids metering. Its porous, uncoated flakes are easily ignited with standard primers. So-called "magnum" primers do no harm in cases larger than the .30-'06, but are neither necessary nor recommended in smaller ones. I DO NOT recommend pistol primers in reduced rifle loads, because weak primers may cause erratic ignition, and their thinner cups can perforate more easily, causing gas leakage and risk of personal injury!

The velocities obtained with 13 grs. of Red Dot appear mild, but "The Load" is no pipsqueak! In a case like the .308 or .30-06, you get (from a 24" sporter barrel) about 1450 fps with a 200gr. cast bullet, 1500 with a 170gr, or 1600 with a 150gr cast load. "The Load" is fully comparable to "yesterday's deer rifle", the .32-40, and provides good expansion of cheap, soft alloys (10-13 BHN) at woods ranges. Jacketed bullet velocities with "The Load" are about 120-150fps less than a lubricated lead bullet of the same weight.

My preferred alloy in the .30 cals. is a mixture of 3-5 lbs. Of .22 backstop scrap to 1 lb. of salvaged linotype. Wheel-weights also work well, as do soft "Scheutzen" alloys such as 1:25 tin/lead. in bores of 8 mm or larger. "The Load" drives soft-cast .30-cal. to 8 mm bullets fast enough to get expansion, but without fragmenting. These out-penetrate factory .30-30 softpoints, and kill medium game up to 150 lbs. well at short ranges up to 100 yards, when placed accurately.

The Load" works well with jacketed bullets, giving somewhat lower velocities than with cast lead, due to less effective obturation and greater friction in the bore. The 85gr or 100gr Hornady or 90gr. Sierra JHP for the .32 H&R Mag. revolver, or the Remington 100gr .32-20 softpoint bullet become mild, but destructive varmint loads at 1600 fps from a .308 or '06.

If you substitute a stiffly jacketed 110gr .30 Carbine softpoint bullet, designed for higher velocities than imparted by "The Load", you have a non-destructive "coup de gras", small game or wild turkey load which shoots close to your deer rifle's normal zero, but at 25 yards! The 173-gr. Match .30 cal. boattail bullets may not shoot as well at these low velocities as lighter flat bases in the 12" twist .308 Win. barrels, but they do quite well in ten-inch twist barrels such as in the '06, 7.62 Russian and .303 British.

The economy of a lighter charge is obvious. A full power .30-06 load using 50 grs. of an IMR powder like 4064 costs 10 cents a pop, just for powder, at 140 rounds per pound (if you are lucky enough to find new powder for $14/lb.). Substituting 13 grs. Of Red Dot gets 538 rounds per pound at a cost of 2.6 cents which is a savings of over $7 per hundred rounds in powder alone! Greater
savings are possible if you get the best price and buy powder by the caddy.

Velocity and point of impact of "The Load" is not noticeably affected by varying powder position in the case. Red Dot is very clean burning and is economical both on the basis of its lower charge weight, and its lower basic cost per pound compared to other "rifle" powders.

Best of all, using a shotshell powder I already have reduces the kinds of powder I keep and eliminates the need for a special "reduced load" powder. This approach is ideal for rifle shooters who are also shotgunners, since almost everybody who reloads for 12-ga. probably has a keg of Red Dot already!

You can safely increase these charges up to 2 grains as needed to get best accuracy, but they will lead above 1300 fps unless gas-checked. Some individual rifles with smooth barrels shoot quite well up to 7 or 7.5 gr of these powders, but best accuracy is usually obtained when velocities are kept subsonic. I generally look for a velocity of 1080 +/- 30 fps These loads will usually shoot 2-1/2" to 3" groups at 100 yards. The minimum safe load which will always exit the barrel for indoor gallery work is about 4 grs. of the above powders.

More caution is required when assembling subsonic loads with jacketed bullets, because there is some risk of the bullet becoming lodged in the bore at near-subsonic velocities. You should not attempt to use less than 6 grs. of the above pistol or shotgun powders when loading jacketed bullets unless you check the bore after every shot and keep your hammer and ramrod handy!

Mark
 
Are you full length sizing the fired brass?

No I am only neck sizing

Many .303s, especially Lee Enfields, have rather large chambers at the shoulder, fired brass almost looking like it was fired in an 'improved' chamber. If this brass is full length sized it will move the shoulder back then when it is fired it again stretches forward, this will lead to premature bass failure, even case-head separation.

The difference in the fired brass between my SMLE & my #5 is quite amazing. The SMLE has almost squarish shoulder. Probably because the SMLE was FTR'd & the #5 has not been

The solution is to only size the brass enough to enter the chamber and no more. This should extend your case life. Cartridges reloaded with partial sizing may not fit other chambers, a point to keep in mind.

Yes I tried & the fired SMLE cases will not fit into the #5

Maximum loads will also reduce case life, even with partial sizing.

That's what I want to avoid

Reduced loads of 4895/ H4895 , 3031, 4198, will not be a problem. Detonation is a peculiar problem with large capacity magnum cases where loaders have used reduced loads of much slower powders than you would use in a .303, and even then so far as I know it has not been experienced under controlled tests. If anyone has more up-to-date info please chime in.

I think that a year or so I read an article on detonation but could not remember the specifics as to the exact cause or find the article again.

To be safe, if you are shooting at 50 yards , even 100 to 200 yards, and power isn't important, I strongly recommend you use an appropriate powder for reduced loads.

For a long time (like 50 years) I have been using SR 4759 for reduced loads in rifle cartridges, as that is what it was designed to do and is entirely safe. There are other newer powders available but my experience has been with SR 4759 and that is what I would suggest.

SR4759 sounds like just the ticket.

Hope this helps.

It does thanks very much.
 
Manuals

Not in the Lee, Lyman or ABC's of reloading, manuals that I read.
Perhaps there is a better manual that you can recommend, with a fuller explanation than just "don't do this", but actually why you shouldn't do this.
The Lee manual especially, came across to me as a glorified sales pitch.



Wasn't this whole topic discussed in the RELOADING MANUAL THAT YOU MUST HAVE READ?












:D
 
Back
Top Bottom