Lilja vs Remington Borescope Video

Interesting.. I have one of those 3 groove Liljas in .308 on my trued 700... and it shoots really, really well. I also recently shot a factory 700 Remington in .308 that shot surprisingly well...
 
Interesting that you mention some of those factory Remington Barrels, Dennis. I have several that, while not match grade, are surprisingly accurate. My 300 Savage M700 Classic will regularly shoot into ½" or so, and occassionally much less, one three shot group measuring a mere .040" By that same token, I appreciate a quality custom barrel, and have several that I really like, including Gaillard, Shilen, Lothar-Walther, Pac-Nor and even a Douglas. I am starting a new project with a Krieger, so am excited about that also. One feature of lapped barrels is the ease with which they clean up. Regards, Eagleye.
 
The video is accurate in its comparison of factory verse custom barrels. That looks like your average factory hammer forged barrel and the other is pretty much how your average custom barrel appears. With that said, I like my borescope but have learned that a barrels interior finish dosen't always reflect how well it's gonna shoot, you have to shoot it to find that out.
 
There is little doubt that you get much better machining in a true match quality barrel. Looking at the bore of my Gaillards, they glow bright with no visible marks.

Borescopes can also be a bad thing as they magnify defects that may not affect the quality or shootability of the barrel.

I have bought several used match barrels that were sold because they were all used up. The view through the borescope showed all sorts of horrid things. In fact, one guy gave all sorts of warnings to the barrel not being worth anything (priced accordingly too :) )

These barrels were set back a bit, given a good cleaning and voila, all have shot exceptionally well.

If you have a borescope, it can show you if your cleaning techniques are working or identify serious damage. however, don't keep staring at the bore and psyching yourself out.

Even a super model looks pretty horrid under extreme magnification...

Jerry
 
Borescoping is very interesting. One aspect is that it certainly helps clarify the number of rounds through a barrel.....experience and fire cracking do not tell lies. I wouldn't be without my borescope.
 
Some Remington hammer forged barrels are superb. Some suck. The big thing is that the difference between best and worst is quite a bit greater than with the better custom barrels.
I have seen barrels which looked like hell but which shot very well. I have also seen the opposite. A friend showed me one Lilga which is really a great looking barrel but which never has shot worth a damn.
In the end, such videos are a marketing tool and I regard them as such. They probably show the truth. Just not the whole truth. Regards, Bill.
 
Folks, keep in mind, borescopes (visual) are only 1 part of many examination techniques. In this instance the scope only lets you look into a small diameter pipe to identify any "obvious" visual deficiencies which may or may not be detrimental to accuracy. Visual examination is usually the first mode of examination after a problem or to ensure things are normal. Lets face it, at $350ish (plus $150ish for install) other detailed nondestructive examination is just too expensive an option. As far as I know the only way to tell if a barrel will shoot (well that is) is to shoot it......

If a barrel maker is pushing his product to be hand lapped and free of tooling marks .... how you be able to tell if you are getting what you are paying for without a borescope? Before the barrel is chambered and fitted, borescoping a blank will help you determine if it is tooling mark free or free of obvious surface defects. If at that stage you find defects it is less painfull to exchange the barrel (no machining costs by your smith). Once it is chambered/fitted it is usually too late. If you return it, it is unlikely you can recoup your fitting expense. Further, if you fire it with the defects, you are likely stuck with the barrel as most makers will not take it back.
 
Joe, I want to put

you on the spot. If you want you can PM me. Is there any barrel maker out there that you have seen the most inconsistency out of? Whose have appeared to look most consistent?:confused:

YOU HAD BETTER PM me on this.:D :eek: :runaway:

It is a very loaded question and possible cause of bashing but I am very curious.


Calvin
 
I have had several (12?) factory Remington rifles and all of them could shoot sub-minute. (maybe I'm just lucky?) Not always with factory ammo. I have three custom barrels, a lilja, Mclellan(sp?) and a Gaillard. All of those shoot.

The big difference I've found is cleaning. It takes very little to come out with clean patches with a custom, where as the Factory barrels take much work to remove fouling. I also notice how a patched jag slides smoothly doen a custom barrel compared to an uneven factory.

Can a factory barrel be lapped smooth?
 
Yes, a factory barrel can be lapped BUT.....

You run the very real risk of expanding the bore just big enough that bullets don't travel accurately anymore.

For real foulers, I have done some hand polishing using a tight patch and JB nonembedding compound and their new bore brite. Very fine compounds so the likelihood of changing bore dimensions is slim. Just enough to take the high spots/burrs off the rifling.

When you get into the 600 to 1000 grit abrasives, you are definitely removing metal. Without a proper bore lap, you can change internal dimensions for the worse.

Another 'safer' way is firelapping. Here very long for calibre bullets are fired at reduced speeds down the bore while covered in lapping compound. It apparently takes few shots to see visible smoothing of the bore.

The biggest downside is that the throat will also be eroded. This can reduce your barrel accuracy far more then a few rough spots.

David Tubbs sells a system and there is info at his website.

Personally, I don't clean my rifles all that much as they seem to always like shooting dirty. When I do, I use some nice agressive cleaners so never a real chore.

For me, I prefer small groups on paper then shiny bores.

Jerry
 
I have seen a number of ads for the hawkeye borescope and thought that it would be an interesting thing to have in the old repetoire but I decided against it because, frankly, I am not trained to know what to look for in a barrel - it is one thing to be able to look at the bore and say it is clean but it is another to actually know if the barrel is screwed up.
 
cycbb486 said:
you on the spot. If you want you can PM me. Is there any barrel maker out there that you have seen the most inconsistency out of? Whose have appeared to look most consistent?:confused:

YOU HAD BETTER PM me on this.:D :eek: :runaway:

It is a very loaded question and possible cause of bashing but I am very curious.


Calvin
Click to expand...


Hi Calvin.

Now thats a mine field....:runaway:

Probably best answered by your smith. Hopefully he can provide you with sound information.

Regards,

Joe
 
The biggest difference I've found between a factory barrel and a custom match barrel is far less copper fouling and MUCH quicker cleanup of the custom tubes.;)
 
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