Lithgow...with Ishy screw...

berger

berger

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Hey guys...

I have all the confidence in your expert knowledge, so I was wondering what you think of a 194 2Lithgow No1, with an Ishy screw? I sold my only No1 during the summer, and I want another one. I am not really concerned with collector value, but I do like a matching rifle. Is $350 + shipping to much? I cannot wait for Louthepou and his slow reproduction of beautiful rifles...:D ;)



Thanks guys!
 
by buying a complete...you are missing out on many a great gun. Sporters that are refurbed make great range rifles. I enjoy my .410 and am looking forward to my .303 he is doing for me now.
 
berger said:
Hey guys...

I have all the confidence in your expert knowledge, so I was wondering what you think of a 194 2Lithgow No1, with an Ishy screw? I sold my only No1 during the summer, and I want another one. I am not really concerned with collector value, but I do like a matching rifle. Is $350 + shipping to much? I cannot wait for Louthepou and his slow reproduction of beautiful rifles...:D ;)



Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

Seems reasonable for an original SMLE. There are lots of factors to consider. Here's some:

- Bore condition is the number one issue for me. How shiny, strong rifling etc.
- Is it drilled/tapped, sporterized, permanently altered or damaged in anyway?
- How many numbers matching (receiver, barrel, bolt, rear sight, stock, nosecap, magazine) Usually I'm happy with just bolt, barrel, receiver and nosecap.
- Metal condition, percent of bluing remaining, any rust or pitting (esp under the wood)
- Wood condition, any cracks or major dings
- Other things I like to ask, year and manufacturer? Ishy screwed? Any unit markings or brass disc? (bonus for me) Headspacing okay? Extras? (bayonet, sling, stripper clips, cleaning kit, ammo etc)

Lots can effect the price range, but it really comes down to what are you willing to pay for it?
 
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Hi Berger!

Sorry my pace is not up to commercial standards :)

I wish I could say I'll have a Lithgow ready for you soon, but it should be spring time before I'm done with my current "contracts.

The only Lithgow I took to the range is the one I did for my best buddy, and it grouped like no other Enfield I've seen before.

If the one you're looking at has all the good marks on its report card, I'd say that's a reasonable price. I personnally don't mind the Ishy screw that much, but indeed that can have an effect on collector's appeal.

Just like Vimy said, I'd want no rust, even on the bands and swivels.

Then, of course, as soon as I'd get it here, I would disassemble it completely and clean and oil everything.

Maybe drill it and scope it. J

UST KIDDING!
 
Lithgows are not really any better made than any other Enfield in similar condition. The ability for it to group is likely much more dependant upon how well the stock is fitted and how nice the bore is. I just installed a new Lithgow barrel (New old stock unused bbl) on a volunteer pattern BSA that had a shot out bore. Obviously it grouped much better afterward.

Regarding the $350 price, I assume you are referring to the P&S Militaria SMLEs. If so, I have bought two of them - a 1934 Ishapore made gun (with Ishy screw) and a 1943 Ishapore made gun (without Ishy screw). In both cases the bores were perfect - these guns were rebuilt somewhere along the line and not fired much thereafter.

You should be aware that both guns needed a few small parts replaced that were in worn out condition. Both guns came out nice though after a little TLC, but I would consider them to have been more "project" pieces than guns ready to take to the range from day 1.

Now Ishy screws are a bit of a pickle. Not all Ishy screws were applied in India. It started as a MOD approved armorer's instruction from REME in the UK and some Brit and Aussie guns had this done legitimately, but it has received a negative connotation from collectors over the years since India seemed to do this modification out of course on many guns that didnlt really need the modification. There's a great article by retired MOD armorer Peter Laidler over at Milsurps.com in which he comments on the Ishy screw and says exactly what I have said above.

That being said, if it is a Lithgow with an Ishy screw, it is VERY likely a gun out of India. Nearly all the Lithgows to come to Canada in the last 8 years or so have come from the batch of Lithgows Australia sold to India in the late 1950's. Most of those have been re-stocked to varying degrees by the Indians and nearly all guns have gotten the "Ishy Screw".

Whether or not $350 is reasonable I would leave up to you. You might also consider phoning Ellwood Epps and Frontier Taxidermy to see what they have as well, they also got guns from that same shipment.
 
Please note that a British Armourer on another forum has stated that this was an approved fix for British rifles as well. However most of the "screwed" ones we normaly see do come from India where the unscrewed rifle seems to be the exception rather than the norm.
 
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