LMT Defender 2000

Shootist said:
Thanks for the reply... I read that thread already before I posted my question. I am leaning towards the Stag too given the lifetime warranty on complete guns until I saw the LMT.... but I also had a similar concern as I was going to buy it from TSE who assembled the Stag from parts from Arms East I think...
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My father has a Stag that he bought from TSE. My understanding is that TSE gets complete uppers and lowers shipped to them and then simply put the two pieces together, which hardly makes it a "parts gun". Perhaps redleg could clarify.
 
Shootist, We warranty Stags sold through TSE, though I'm sure that Redleg can take care of most anything in house, but second line is still in Canada and if it came from TSE, or any authorized dealer, it's covered. Buy with confidence.

Anything involving standard parts can be taken care of quickly should the need arise, special order parts can take longer.

I believe there are still Stags on dealer shelves? Not sure on 2Rs though, but some 1R, 3R and 4Rs are out there.

FWIW, the next shipment will be here early next week, received word this afternoon. (for those waiting on the M4 ramp cut uppers! :) )
 
highspeedlowdrag said:
From what I've read over at ARfcom, LMT now makes complete carbines for public sale... Might be worth checking with Questar on this - if you're still interested in an LMT...

hsld.
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I can tell you that LMT does not sell "complete" firearms except to Military and LE agency contracts. They do not offer them to us or any other dealer/distributor... those that say they do are simply assembling the uppers and lowers themselves and charging the FET. The minute LMT puts the upper and lower together and sells them together there is an 11% FET (Federal Excise Tax) payable. By selling the upper and lower separately that FET is not charged.

The LMT's we sell are not "parts guns". LMT does not sell stripped lowers so we couldn't build a lower from parts even if we wanted to (which we don't). The lower is a complete finished unit right from the LMT factory and the inspection tag on the lower states this. The uppers are assembled by LMT... tested by LMT and test fired by LMT at the factory... they are stickered and marked by LMT and that sticker is on the upper when you get it. They don't just test and test fire a percentage of their production, they inspect and test fire every single gun... something that very few AR manufacturers actually do.

Because LMT offers a number of different Bolt Carrier Group options we install the BCG of your choice (or no BCG if that's what you choose) at time of sale... same with the charging handle and handguard.

If you take a standard BCG then you end up with the complete assembled Upper that LMT shipped and the BCG and charging handle that was in that upper when they shipped it from the factory (since that's how most of them are ordered and shipped to us). The only thing we would "add" is the handguard if you buy one.

LMT ships the complete assembled lower and the assembled upper. At worst we insert the LMT assembled BCG, a charging handle and push the two pins on the upper and lower.

As far as warranty... LMT has a fantastic reputation both for the quality and performance of their product and also for standing behind their products should any defect or manufacturing failures occur. We are happy to represent LMT and assist with any warranty issues, though truthfully they are quite rare.

If you want to know about LMT talk to someone who owns one.

Mark
 
LMT is fantastic quality, mil-spec features without paying Colt prices if you're looking for a close M4-type configuration. I had one in 10.5 and 14.5, regret selling them.
 
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Buy an LMT from Questar, the service was great and I have been really happy with my CQB.
 
highspeedlowdrag said:
Not doubting your word Mark, but just so you know I'm not talking outa my azz...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=336257

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6301

Judge for yourself, but there you go...

Cheers,
hsld.
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Yes I've read the Ar15.com postings as well and I know what you're talking about. I also double checked the dealer section of LMT's website (where dealers order on-line) and they still do not show complete rifles as an available order item and their policy still states they only sell complete rifles to military and LE agency contracts.

The manual in the picture is available from LMT (notice the date... 2003) and there is no way to tell if the gun is actually shipped assembled from LMT (as they state it is) or if it is being assembled by the dealer himself from separate upper and lower that LMT ships him. I would be more convinced if he had also shown a picture of the box that the rifles supposed came in from LMT. LMT... the fact that he didn't makes me think he got upper and lower and combined them together at his shop like we do. Just for giggles I'll contact LMT tomorrow and ask if there's been a change that they haven't notified us about. Anything is possible... but I'm doubtful.

Truthfully, even if they are willing to now sell us the upper and lower "assembled" by them, instead of in two halves, we'd still export it as two halves because the other way costs us 11% more (at wholesale) and then we have to pay money and wait 6 months for FET rebates. Just a huge zero sum game and not worth while. It would end up driving the price here up by hundreds of dollars and for absolutely no gain.

Even the guys on AR15.com are saying why pay $200 + more to buy the "complete" LMT when they can buy the upper and lower separately and save the FET costs.

Mark
 
why are you so worried about the warranty? if it works out of the box, it'll last you a lifetime. not like your heading to a 2-way range and NEED to have it work.

besides, once you get on AR, the infection sets in and you'll end up with all kinds of 'spare' uppers, lower, BCG, stocks and various other bits. soon you will be hoping something will go wrong so you justify to yourself the next AR rifle/part purchase.
 
even if they are willing to now sell us the upper and lower "assembled" by them, instead of in two halves, we'd still export it as two halves because the other way costs us 11% more (at wholesale) and then we have to pay money and wait 6 months for FET rebates. Just a huge zero sum game and not worth while. It would end up driving the price here up by hundreds of dollars and for absolutely no gain.
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And that's why people keep coming back to you time after time.... You should be ashamed of yourself and your business practices...;)

Like I suggested, buy the LMT (in two halves or as a complete if they are available) from Questar and call it a day, you won't be disappointed...

hsld.
 
I bought a Defender 2000 (from Questar, thanks Mark), and have owned it for almost a year now, put thousands of rounds through it, and is still good to go and then some. In my opinion you can't go wrong with an LMT.
 
I have a 10.5" and two 14.5" LMTs and have had no issues with the carbines. I'll add that Mark is great to deal with and has gone out of his way to assist me on more than one occasion. You also have the one-stop-shop with choices of bolts, carriers, stocks, and triggers to fit your particular requirement.

That said, I also have a Stag G2 from Walter and a Colt AR-15A2 Gov't that I have no complaints with either.
 
I spoke to LMT today and it appears that they are "unofficially" selling complete rifles to dealers for civilian sales. Only two specific model/combinations are offered for us... they allow absolutely no substitutions or part changes.


HGCQB16 CQB with 16" barrel
SOPMOD Buttstock
Standard Bolt Carrier Group, S/A
16" Chrome Lined Barrel
Standard Trigger Group
Defender Lower


HGSTD16 Std with 16" barrel
SOPMOD Buttstock
Standard Bolt Carrier Group, S/A
16" Chrome Lined Barrel
Standard Trigger Group
Defender Lower

Guns ship with sling, operators
manual, and one thirty round mag

No accessories - no free sights, no
changing configuration.


Since the magazine can't be imported that's a waste of money... the sling and manual are okay, but the extra cost of these has been added in, along with the 11% FET so the price is considerably higher than when we push the pins on the two halves ourselves.

It just doesn't make sense... but if someone actually wants one this way we can order it for you... you're going to pay a considerable premium for this which makes no sense to me, but the option is there is you really want it.

Mark
 
Deckard said:
You might want to tell them that in the world of AR modifications, having them dictate what the rifle will come with will turn off customers.
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Now that is funny :)

LMT operates 24/7 and most holidays. They build for Military and LE contracts mostly... retail is not their main business. They are one of the only AR manufacturers who don't make one version for Military/LE and another version for retail buyers... you get the real deal no matter who you are. They are also an actual manufacturer, (they make the stuff as opposed to many companies who buy from others and stamp a name on it).

It seems that a few US Distributors wanted to offer "complete" rifles so LMT obliged them. This is still not an official offering. And it isn't particularly popular given that in the US it automatically costs a minimum of 11% more to buy the two halves assembled instead of seperately.

We already offer all of their options in many configurations... they aren't limiting customer choices at all.

Mark
 
I bought a LMT Defender from Mark at Questar. Excellent Service, excellant rifle. Two of my favourite sayings when purchasing firearms: 1.) You get what you pay for 2.) In the long run, cheap is always more expensive.
 
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