Load Development question

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tomapleleafss

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Hey guys and gals, a quick question for you. When you are first starting out load development and you are varying powder to find your node, how many rounds do you make of for each load size? One, two, five? I would like to do one to keep down costs down, but what if you get a round that you off a hair when loading it. Your rounds would have to be perfect to get a good results. I think ideally 3 would be good, but that is a lot rounds.
 
1 round wouldnt tell you anythingnother then the how far off point of aim. You need a few to see the group. You can always adjust poi after you found your load

id try a min of 3 but 5 rounds would be better of each powder weight. And going from min load to 1gr over max at 0.5gr a time. There is some very good info posted in a few threads below this one

Quote from other thread.

Ganderite said:
So first, you decide which brass, primers, bullet and powder to use. You have done that.

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Then you decide what OAL to use. I choose between solid engagement into the lands (which you have done) or 20 thou off the rifling. I often try both to see which works best for that rifle. Usually I chose 20 thou off because it is more accurate and because there is no risk of opening the bolt and dumping all the powder into the action/trigger because the bullet is stuck in the throat.

Once you decode on whether or not the bullet should be in the rifling or off, you have to do some trial and error to find what that OAL is for your rifle.

Then you do your load development with various powder charges. With a new rifle/powder/bullet I would load 5 of each in o.5 gr increments from START to 1 gr over MAX and shoot these for groups to find the powder range worthy of exploration.

If I find pressure signs, I bring the rest of the hot rounds home, to be pulled.
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My friends who do ladder tests (300-600m) sometimes use 1-shot of each load to look for nodes. Then they load 5 of each of the loads that landed at the same elevation in the ladder test and shoot for group sizes.
I prefer to shoot 5-shot groups of each load at the same POA without adjusting the scope (all on separate but identical targets). How far up or down from the POA will let you see your nodes and the groups will show you potential accuracy of each load. My best loads are usually at the same elevation and loads that drop or rise more are usually quite a bit worse in terms of group size. This is just my way of doing it.

For OAL I always load for maximum magazine/feed length. So far in every rifle I've owned the max magazine length determines how long I can load my rounds; the chamber/throat is always longer.
 
This depends on your ability to shoot straight by whatever means you're using to support your rifle + you need to be reasonably good shot. I load 4 per tested charge as an indicator, if I happen to flinch on one of the shots I still have 3 to know what's going on, 5 is better but then you need to watch your barrel temperature. When I get closer to good group, then definitely 5 shots, if you have 1 flyer, 4 still show objective result.
 
IMR4320 said:
This depends on your ability to shoot straight by whatever means you're using to support your rifle + you need to be reasonably good shot. I load 4 per tested charge as an indicator, if I happen to flinch on one of the shots I still have 3 to know what's going on, 5 is better but then you need to watch your barrel temperature. When I get closer to good group, then definitely 5 shots, if you have 1 flyer, 4 still show objective result.
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Yes, 5 of each for me as well. I know very few people (I can't even count them all on one finger) who can put 5 shots consistently sub 0.25MOA which is pretty much what is required to be assured that any single shot is going exactly where you thought you aimed it. Same goes for velocities and derived pressures. One shot is pretty much next to useless. That is my opinion anyway. If something else works for you then go for it.
 
If you have access to a decent chronograph, record the velocities while shooting your 3 or 5 shot groups. It can be very hard to judge the node when shooting groups at short range especially if they are all pretty similar. Human error can also creep in and really mess you up. Speed, ES and SD can be the tie breaker. Plot the average speeds on a graph and your nodes will be where the curve flattens out a little. I've had lots of loads that looked good on paper at 100 or 200 yards, but never one that shot well at distance without also having really good numbers.
 
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LUTNIT said:
My friends who do ladder tests (300-600m) sometimes use 1-shot of each load to look for nodes. Then they load 5 of each of the loads that landed at the same elevation in the ladder test and shoot for group sizes.
I prefer to shoot 5-shot groups of each load at the same POA without adjusting the scope (all on separate but identical targets). How far up or down from the POA will let you see your nodes and the groups will show you potential accuracy of each load. My best loads are usually at the same elevation and loads that drop or rise more are usually quite a bit worse in terms of group size. This is just my way of doing it.

For OAL I always load for maximum magazine/feed length. So far in every rifle I've owned the max magazine length determines how long I can load my rounds; the chamber/throat is always longer.
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That’s what works for me.

An example: If the manual calls for a starting load of 40 grains, and a max load of 45 grains, I’ll load up 2 cartridges each of 41 gr, 41.5, 42, 42.5, 43, 43.5, 44, 44.5, and 45. Then I shoot 2 ladder tests at 300-400 yards. If the 43.5-44.5 loads are showing a node, I’ll go home and load up 5 each of those in half grain increments, see which load is grouping the best at 200 yards, then I pick that load to use and start playing around with the seating depth.

I always shoot over a chronograph and watch for strange velocities and pressure signs of course.

Once I find the ideal seating depth for my preferred load, then I load up about 25 rounds, run them over the chrony to check for velocity spread and tweak the load further if necessary.
 
tomapleleafss said:
Sorry I forgot to mention that I do use a Magnetospeed. Right now I only have access to the 100 yard range, so I was hoping to have something ready when it dries up.
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Get rid of the magnetospeed. You’ll never find an accurate load with something hanging off the end of your barrel.
 
The best setups I've seen for a Magnetospeed are custom one's that mount to the front of the stock/chassis. You don't want it anywhere near touching the barrel.
 
In the old days people used to make ladder loads from minimum to maximum, but now in the age of information you can just make a post of your rifle and what bullet you want in order to get replies from someone who has already done it. Someone with the same rifle and same bullet should be very similar to the results that you should get.

Having that said, if someone posts their honey load of "X grain of Powder Y", just make a 5 load test , plus another 5 both above and below half a grain. So 15 shots should confirm if you're in the zone.

When I'm finalizing my load for that last one or two percent of possible improvement, I make two sets of test loads to be fired on different days. Sometimes a guy is tired, eyes are sore, you're getting cold, its windy, the insects were annoying, you were getting hungry, or you had heartburn. If I get the same results both times then it was a good test, if not I re-shoot.
 
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