Load test, which one choose?

[Evil_Dark]

I've done some load testing, and I want your opinion for which one to choose.
I want to do long range shooting, 500 Yards and more. I don't want to nessesarely have shots touch each others at 500 Yards, but I rather want o be able to predict my drop and create solid charts to shoot small targets at various long distances.

So heres my results:

If I consider mostly the velocity consitency, the 40.6 load is the more consistent.
If I consider the grouping, the 40.5gr group is good, but the ES is very high: 79FPS. So i might have problems to predict the drop at longer shots due to a lot of variation in the velocity...

What are your opinions?


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[maynard]

Hogdon website shows you are below the starting load for 168's and 4895. Starting at 41 up to 45.4 gr. Chances are that you will find a better load that is on the higher end, something to think about if you want to start pushing out past 500 yards.

 

[J996]

^ What he said. I use 41 to 42 grains IMR4895 with a 175 SMK. Good shooting with that second last group.

 

[Evil_Dark]

I've already tested these loads before. The bests results were on the lower end of the powder charge. If I remember corectly, my manual have the starting load at the 39.5, so I first tested 39.5, 40.0, 41.0, 42.0, 43.0, 44.0 The best group was on the 40.0

So now I did fine tune it...

I want to know If I rather focus on the velocity consistency, or the group size, regarding that I will shoot at long range.

Thanks
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[Barnard308]

Sometimes there are two good loads, one on the lower side and one on the higher side, my Savage 10FCP likes the higher sided load for consistency. Maybe if you try this you might be able to tighten these groups up that you shot at 200 meters. There seems to be some horizontal stringing on your target, mine did this as well, try adjusting the torque on the action bolts it may help as well if the action is bedded. Over all the second last one is pretty good though.

 

[accumark]

from your target notes i did not notice any indication that you were changing the jump off the ogive, would suggest starting with the group that gave you the lowest es and work the jump you should better the group size and es will change. many changes take place in group size am distance increases try to get es to 10 fps or less.

 

[chrismc]

If it were me with your rig...
1) ditch the 168's and go to 175/178gr pills - 2650 seems to be the velocity sweet spot for many if not most rifles
2) work up in 0.3 gr as you will miss a node going 1 grain at a step
3) forget groups with vertical, do all testing 200-300 yards
4) if you find a node in the low end, the next node is usually 3% up from that if you're gun can handle it.
5) load all to book length (2.80-2.81 COAL) and find load, then tweak depth. Myself, i have found most shoot best at 2.81-2.82 regardless of jump.

Keep us posted as to how you make out!

 

[Evil_Dark]

from your target notes i did not notice any indication that you were changing the jump off the ogive, would suggest starting with the group that gave you the lowest es and work the jump you should better the group size and es will change. many changes take place in group size am distance increases try to get es to 10 fps or less.

Okay so I should keep the 40.6gr load and try to add at the COAL. Now I'm at 2.793", I did'nt test where the rifling are in my rifle. BUT 10fps of ES is reachable? It seems to be a very small window of spread... Is this a standard that you guys can reach?

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[dusticles]

My opinion... 168 will do well out to about 800 yards. I prefer 175/178 like others. Also, you probably missed your high node because you loaded in full grain increments. Half a grain can make a huge difference. I usually load 10 rounds, half grain apart, to test for speed and check pressure signs. Then I build .3 grain loads across 2 grains on the high end.

Would look like this (Example only!!):
Speed/Pressure loads (one each) 39.5, 40.0, 40.5, 41.0, 41.5, 42.0, 42.5, 43.0, 43.5, 44.0. Found flat primer at 44.0, 2780 fps.

Accuracy test (5 loads each)- 42.6, 42.9, 43.2 43.5, 43.8

When I do this, I watch for POI shift and ES/DS. For me POI shift on an accurate group is a no go. I'd prefer to play with seating and neck tension on a less accurate group, this way I know that if I throw a powder charge high or low by .1 or .2, I will still be on target. I'm not sure what you were aiming at on your target but your POI is all over the place

 

[elkhuntr]

A scan of your groups show you are doing some things very well. I would have a close look at your 40.4 and 40.5 load now at 300m or beyond to 500m. The distance will tell your tale of woe. What I look for is the least vertical dispersion, as the windage variable may scatter your groups horizontally from shot to shot. At 200m you should be striving for 0.5moa groups and you are on your way there. Don't get hung up on the stats..let the target get you there. the lower node may prove to be a more behaved performer over the higher node as suggested elsewhere. Your brass will last longer as will your barrel. My 2c.

Ways to help behave the load is weigh or volumetrically cull your brass. Consistent neck tension, neck turning, and seating depth are others. Very accurate charges (use of a good digital scale) will be another.
Elky...

 

[accumark]

Ways to help behave the load is weigh or volumetrically cull your brass. Consistent neck tension, neck turning, and seating depth are others. Very accurate charges (use of a good digital scale) will be another.
Elky. .

volumetrically in theory had me thinking in the past until I had someone on another forum said if you weight your brass you can separate it but told me if you flatten it its volume will change but still weight the same!was something I had never given thought to. for me neck tension by way of annealing after every firing neck turning as required and seating depth can be a game changer. even 2 thou can change speed and group size.

 

[manitou210]

You have got some great advice from many members. I will just to mention a few from me that has worked with 168 gr bullets.
to keep your ES lower GOOD SCALE, All the same brass absolutely the best brass is Lapua palma Small rifle primer !.You will need to use CCI Mag Primers in light loads
I always turn necks, and uniform your primer pockets. I have shot many kinds of 168 gr bullets but the best being Berger 168 Hybrids.
I use IMR 4895 for a short range load 100 & 200 y 39.5 gr. but problems could accure with hotter loads shooting on warm summer days you could have spikes ? I know varget is good on warm days
I get best results with bullets KISSING LANDS
Best load I have found for longer range is Varget at 43 gr very accurate but for 500 y + I would try using more Varget up to 46 gr max
I shoot with a lot of F class shooters using .308 and most including the American National FTR team are using 200 gr Bergers with great results.
My good shooting buddy Liberty on site has a wicket load with 200 gr Bergers in his Fclass rifle I have seen groups at6 100 y under .150" and just over .500" at 300 y
You must work on getting your ES lower you would get smoked at long-ranges with lots of vertical its hard enough to read wind but with vertical its really bad.
Good luck and keep us posted and targets

The fellow who shot this at Eganville ON was the first time he ever fired a center-fire rifle had only shot rim-fire rifles.
I remeber well when he asked me after 3 shots I don't see my bullet holes could I check with my scope, I said you are doing okay just don't change anything and fire your last two shots. he did very well still holds the best target shot at 200 y at Eganville matches

View attachment 53897

 

[Evil_Dark]

I have Lapua brass (they are brand new), I will anneal them after 3 reloads with an automatic annealer. I don't know the neck turning process, so I will read on that. What would be a reasonable E.S. to achieve?

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[bsand]

Forget ES, focus on SD and ES will come down.

I have loads in SD of 6.8-20. Current load (1/2 moa at 300) has sd of 15.3 es 50. I played with oal and tightened up the group by 1/2" at 300yd

 

[Evil_Dark]

Forget ES, focus on SD and ES will come down.

I have loads in SD of 6.8-20. Current load (1/2 moa at 300) has sd of 15.3 es 50. I played with oal and tightened up the group by 1/2" at 300yd

So my group with a SD of 13.9 is good? Now I could play with COAL to tighten the group?

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[bsand]

Yep, that's what I did. Went from 1.36" at 300 to 0.968" by pushing it out by 40 thou.

 

[burnaby]

Precision folks will say target ES below 10.
With 44.1grs Varget my 168 SMKs has SD/ES of 4/12 with magnetospeed.

Getting .4 MOA on first 4 shots, then rifle gets tense and flyers the fifth

So my group with a SD of 13.9 is good? Now I could play with COAL to tighten the group?

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