Loading 44-40, What am I doing wrong?

Joe Amorosi

Joe Amorosi

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Location
Not Where I Thought I Was....
New to the 44-40 cartridge and not sure of what my next step should be.
First time loading/shooting this rifle. Groups are "on paper" at 50yds (that's being generous...) and rounds are key holing.

The rifle is a 1873 Winchester DOM 1879
Bore slugs ~0.426 - 0.427
Using 200grn cast 0.429 RNFP bullet from Rusty Wood
with 6grn Winchester 231 and a pretty good crimp, Winchester LR primer, COAL 1.595
Bore is shiny and not pitted
Rifling is pretty much non-existant... could almost pass for a smooth bore LOL....

What should my next step be to try and tighten up my group and stop the key holing?
Bullet dia?
More/less powder?

Any help would be graciously appreciated
Thanks


See update post #13
 
Last edited:
I've a Winchester in a 38-55 that is like that. I go oversized PL, with a fast powder, always liked Unique...dirty but almost always satifies ( had a GF like that once, too many others got to use her though).
Kick it in the ass quick and bump it up into the rifling.
 
Win 231 is the ONLY powder I could find in my area (wanted to try Clays or Universal but no dice). Although Black Powder is readily available, I chose not to go that route.
I just loaded 10 rnds with 5.6grn powder, same coal. Am going to try those tomorrow
Maybe I should load up 10 more with ~6.3grns and a slightly longer coal??
 
It sounds like you are doing things right. A short easily stabilized bullet, over bore diameter but still not getting enough spin to prevent keyholing. A harder lead alloy might grip the rifling better.

A close inspection of the muzzle and last few inches might show uneven wear from cleaning or some other damage that's throwing bullets off as they leave the barrel.

Otherwise it might just be too worn out to work anymore. It would need to be re-bored, re-barreled or lined to shoot well but should then be good as new. Not always easy to find dome to do that work.
 
If your rifling is really that bad there may not be much you can do. I would try a higher pressure load to try and obturate the bullet but you may not reach that safely. Hopefully those bullets are real soft, in that case, more pressure.
 
I'm new to cast bullets
Rusty Woods describe their bullets as Brinell Hardness level 12-22 BNH. I have nothing to compare that too. Can't scratch them with my fingernail.

I slugged the bore from the muzzle end because I did not want to remove the bolt.
The friction while pounding (gently...) was not consistent through the length of the barrel. Kinda easy to start, then tightened up about 1/3 of the way down, then loosened up and finally fell out of the breach before it reached the chamber.
I have a bore scope... hard to see any rifling in some spots. What I can see is not very prominent.
 
Last edited:
Try less crimp and see what happens. you can crimp a bullet hard enough to swage it down or peel lead from the sides. $0.02
 
Replace that barrel.

I'm surprised it shoots as well as it does.

Eithr that or get some 410 shotshell reloading supplies and use it as a light shotgun. Kidding of course.

rifling buttons are available out of Czechoslovakia at reasonable prices online. There are a few manufacturers that will make them to your specifications. If you want to do some research and acquire a button, you could have a smith take off the barrel and redo the rifling. The buttons are either meant to be pressed through with a hydraulic ram or under one off circumstances can be tapped through with a rod and hammer.

This would lead to requiring a special order mold appx $150 and casting proprietary bullets for your rifle or if you're very lucky, finding a hollow base 429 mold.
 
Last edited:
I had a 44-40 in a 1892. Barrel is as you described. Only thing I could get it to shoot was jacketed, even they were only 4-5” groups at 25 yards, otherwise even hard cast was “on paper” my buddy bought the rifle and after some messing around with it elected to just change the barrel. I’m sure he will be along shortly to give his 2 cents on it. But I would have to agree with the suggestion to change the barrel or have it rebored.
 
A barrel liner is always an option. I intend to reline the barrel of the 1892 Winchester I have down in Mexico with a .429 liner. Track of the Wolf has 44-40 liners that are .421 bore/.429 groove .800 OD for 8.25 inch -- minimum 8 inches. How you get that to Canada is another thing, I can't help you with that. A barrel liner leaves your original barrel intact but regains your rifling like brand new. If you can find a 'smith up to the task, of course, and I'm sure you can.

If the OD is too large, then it has to be turned down on a lathe. The Custom Shop in Queretero can certianly do this work so I'm sure it can be done here as well.
 
TODAY'S RANGE REPORT

Off to the range this morning with three different loads for the Old Girl. Shooting 5 shot groups... 50yds
My original load of 6.0grns Win 231 behind a 200gr cast yielded ~8" groups with 2 or 3 key holes. Pretty sad...
Tried a 5 shot group with 5.6grs of powder, same coal. Got a 4" cloverleaf group with 5 nice round holes(!!!!!!). Must be a fluke I thought until I did it a second time, same result.
Tried a group using 6.4 grns powder Holy Crap... Group opened up to 12" and all 5 not only key holed, they tore out 1/2 inch strips from the paper.
I think I found my answer
Light loads Velocity around 860fps, pressure~9800 cup. Well below factory specs.

Thanks all for replying, You all had valid points
I'm happy with the way it shoots now. Thank Heaven... was not looking forward to a barrel swap or lining
 
Joe Amorosi said:
TODAY'S RANGE REPORT

Off to the range this morning with three different loads for the Old Girl. Shooting 5 shot groups... 50yds
My original load of 6.0grns Win 231 behind a 200gr cast yielded ~8" groups with 2 or 3 key holes. Pretty sad...
Tried a 5 shot group with 5.6grs of powder, same coal. Got a 4" cloverleaf group with 5 nice round holes(!!!!!!). Must be a fluke I thought until I did it a second time, same result.
Tried a group using 6.4 grns powder Holy Crap... Group opened up to 12" and all 5 not only key holed, they tore out 1/2 inch strips from the paper.
I think I found my answer
Light loads Velocity around 860fps, pressure~9800 cup. Well below factory specs.

Thanks all for replying, You all had valid points
I'm happy with the way it shoots now. Thank Heaven... was not looking forward to a barrel swap or lining
Click to expand...

That happens with cast. The keyhole probably caused a too-high pressure load leaking past the bullet in the bore. The gases leaking past the bullet cut a channel on one side, causing it to be off balance and keyholing is the result.

Possible fixes are to use a stronger alloy or back of on the pressure.
 
I have an old Mod 94 in 38-55 that was made circa 1899 that was doing the same thing. Because of corrosive ammo and neglect over the years there was hardly any rifling left. I finally ordered a custom bullet mold from Accurate molds and an oversized sizer .382 dia. for it.

Maybe somebody on the forum has some oversized bullets they could send you a couple to try first? Maybe you could size down some 444 Marlin bullets that are .432 dia?

Maybe you could powder coat your .429 Rustywood bullets which should add some diameter to them.

Got great accuracy now and even killed a bear with it.

Oversize bullets is the way to go, but you will have to work up your loads slowly that is all. Have fun getting the old girl shooting again.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom