Loading for Browning BAR in .280

Chuckbuster

Chuckbuster

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I'm about to embark on a brand new loading project, and am in need of some advice.

I have a BAR in .280 and some 175 grain Hornady Spire Points. I'd like to work up a good load for this rifle but am wondering about powder selection. Specifically, are there any concerns regarding burn speed with powder? I have a few .280 suitable powders on hand--RL19, H1000, H4831, Hybrid100 and H4350--but my question is whether any or all of them are suitable for use with the BAR gas system? Or alternatively, which powders work best in the BAR?
 
I have owned many Bar. Previously I loaded for accuracy, near book minimum. No max loads and large for caliber bullets.

Other theories are that they will handle anything, just l9ad as you would for a bolt action. IIRC, it was one of our reloading experts(powder guru) Ganderite that had a different opinion. He suggested a powder in the fast f9r caliber range. Thought was that pressures were already past peak when the gases operated the gas system. Thus, good high power loads that were easy on the action. Personally I have not tried this yet.
 
Each military caliber has 2 max pressure limits. One for the chamber (say 60,000 psi) and one for the gas port (say 20,000 psi).

If a slower powder is used, the chamber pressure is ok but the gas port pressure can be too high, battering the action.

Commercial ammo is made for all rifles and I have not noticed any mention of gas port issues. The 7.62x51 and the 5.56 pressure barrels have 2 pressure sensors - chamber and gas port. All other sportingcaliber test barrels I have seen have only the chamber pressure transducer.

The BAR may be a modern design with some kind of automatic gas port valve, or it may be designed in such a way that high gas port pressures don't matter. I don't know what it has.

If I was loading a 284 bolt rifle with 175s, I would usually use something like 4831. Out of respect for the BAR gas system, I would use a notch faster powder like H380, or 760.
 
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The closest I have to 760 or 380 in terms of burn speed is BLC2. This is further compounded by a lack of data for any powders in that burn range and 175s; or at least, there is none in my Hornady and Lee manuals, or on Loaddata. I may have to hold off reloading for it until my next trip to my LGS; at which time I can grab a couple of different bullet weights and a couple of pounds of additional suitable powders.
 
Well, I have to talk about something other than the butt reaming the Liberals are preparing to lay on us, so I'm coming back to the BAR in .280.

I went to the range the other day with 10 rounds loaded with the 175s, just to see how it shoots. Well, no joy. All 10 rounds are at 3.295" OAL (Book says 3.300", but I wanted to crimp in the cannelure). I got a very light primer strike with the first round, and the round was very firmly stuck in the chamber. I had to tap smartly on the charging handle with a couple of 2X4s to open the action up and eject the cartridge. As I said, there was a very light primer strike, and the bullet looked like it had been jammed into the start of the rifling. Another shooter said the bullet was being jammed into the leade and all I needed to do was seat the bullet slightly deeper; and he suggested maybe 0.005". Okay, said I.

Well, I just made up a dummy round, started at my loaded length and then began to seat the bullet slightly deeper. Each time, I checked for chambering and ejection. Each time the cartridge jammed itself in the chamber and the action had to be tapped open, until I reached 3.245". Only at that overall length would the cartridge chamber and eject freely. Soooo...since that is considerably shorter than the recommended OAL, I'm going to say that 175s, and possibly other long for weight bullets may be a no go in this rifle.
 
No.

The book OAL is not a "recommendation". It is just a note in their log of the OAL they used for their rifle. You have to find the OAL that works in your rifle. I wish they did not publish an OAL. Causes a lot of grief.

The throat of a rifle advances about 10 thou for each 1000 rounds. If their rifle is older than yours, they may have a longer OAL.

If a bullet is seated long enough to engage the rifling, the case needs to be fire formed and long enough to seat the case firmly on the chamber shoulder. If the case is virgin or FL sized, the case will be off the shoulder and the round will be held onto the bolt face by the bullet in the rifling. When the firing pin hits the primer, the round will be pushed forward as the bullet goes farther into the rifling - softening the blow and causing a misfire.

Seat the bullet deeper by about 20 thou and use brass that is not quite 100% FL sized or just neck sized. You should then get 100% ignition.
 
The brass is all virgin and I FL sized them. The powder charge is a couple of grains below max, but the bullets will now be seated 50 thou deeper (3.245"), so considerably deeper than you have suggested. Even after having read your post, I'll admit that the new length is somewhat troubling to me as someone who has always followed "The Book". However, given your level of experience in this field, would you consider them safe to shoot?
 
Chuckbuster said:
The brass is all virgin and I FL sized them. The powder charge is a couple of grains below max, but the bullets will now be seated 50 thou deeper (3.245"), so considerably deeper than you have suggested. Even after having read your post, I'll admit that the new length is somewhat troubling to me as someone who has always followed "The Book". However, given your level of experience in this field, would you consider them safe to shoot?
Click to expand...

I just picked up my Hornady manual (3rd edition) to see what it says about OAL for the 284. It says that in auto-loaders and lever actions the bullet must be seated deeper. (This would be so that a loaded round can be ejected.) The point should make it clear that OAL is determined by your rifle - not by their rifle.

If you change from bullets in the rifling to 50 thou off the rifling you are dropping pressures by about 5,000 psi. I think that is a safe move....
 
Ganderite said:
I just picked up my Hornady manual (3rd edition) to see what it says about OAL for the 284. It says that in auto-loaders and lever actions the bullet must be seated deeper. (This would be so that a loaded round can be ejected.) The point should make it clear that OAL is determined by your rifle - not by their rifle.

If you change from bullets in the rifling to 50 thou off the rifling you are dropping pressures by about 5,000 psi. I think that is a safe move....
Click to expand...

Ahhh...okay. My brain rebooted and I've read what you've said, again, as well as the above. And it registers now. Thanks.
 
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