I've been having a great bit of success with 60 grs of H4831 and a hornady 165 spfb #3040. This gets just shy of the 2700fps,excellent ejection,and the recoil is so tame you dont loose the target. Their lee factory crimped..Having said that I shoot em out of an FN bar, so your results may vary...I reloaded once for a fella that had one of those short a$$ rem carbines. It's absolute min was 180. 165's are fine for anything in north america short of DG