Long range shooting without turret changes?

Dimitri

Dimitri

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I was wondering, considering the Mil is 3.6" per 100 yards. Does anyone use it to get out there in range without adjusting the scope?

I was just thinking with a 400 yard zero lets say, you could with 168gr GMM in theory shoot up to 800 yards with a mil-dot scope.

100 Yards +2.40 Mils
200 Yards +1.75 Mils
300 Yards +0.95 Mils
400 Yards ZERO Mils
500 Yards -1.10 Mils
600 Yards -2.33 Mils
700 Yards -3.73 Mils
800 Yards -5.33 Mils

This would make it fool proof when it comes to remembering where the scope was last set if you changed it in the field I'm thinking. With these numbers you'd probably be able to get away with zero'ing at 300 yards one mil dot up. :)

Unless I am missing something?

Dimitri
 
Sure it works, but the mil-dot might block out your target. It seems to me they cover a 12" plate at 800 so precise holding is compromised a bit. I've used the technique with some success for both elevation and hold off in the wind, but found it not to be as precise as a center hold.
 
Keep in mind that at long range, precise zero is going to change with the time of day, atmospheric conditions, light, etc.
I prefer to have a base zero at a closer range, say 100m, if that is the closest range at which I will be shooting, and then just apply known come-ups, using the minutes scale on the sight.
 
You guys make valid points. :)

My center dot is already obstructed when the fiber optics on my sight are open. Gives me a nice 1Mil dot of light there.

I was just thinking since I intend to shoot service rifle with this rifle, it would mean no change of zeros and the like and it would keep all my shooting to within 3 Mil dots no matter what the range I am shooting at (100-500 yards). :)

Dimitri
 
It would work fine for fast shooting where you don't have the time to change sights. Case in point, my LE2B from a 100 yard zero drops 3" at 200 and about 9" at 300. Makes for a pretty close holdover with the dots. Fine if you're snap-shoopting baddies, but for most work you'll want to make the adjustment for a center hold. Besides, trying to hold on .5 mil or .3 mil can be tough with no real aimpoint to focus on.
 
I think that if I were to try to use multiple dots for different ranges, the opportunity for error would be excellent.
I plan on using my 1.5-5 Falcon Menace for Service Conditions, changing the sight for each range. Of course, if I forget to change between stages......
 
Matches like #4, #8, #12 are what gave me the idea. :) Especially #12 when you run through shooting from 500 to 100 yards in 100 yard steps.

Or is that meters? I should check before making a drop table for Service rifle. :)

Dimitri
 
It will depend on where you are shooting. Connaught and MilCun are metric, Borden is Imperial as far as I know. Mons is, not sure about Amiens. Might need two sets of settings. Planned on getting walkback zeros at MilCun last weekend, but the access road was closed because of construction. Going to be attending the matches at Borden?
 
If you can swing it, there is an a Tactical/Service Rifle Clinic on the 21st through the 24th of July, followed by Service Rifle Matches 1-12 on the 25th and 26th. These are OSA events, being held at MilCun. Certainly within your driving radius. Great opportunity to get formal instruction.
 
I do the same thing with my NPR2 reticle on my Nightforce scope....Works OK out to a few hundred yards.

Ummm errrr....You can still screw up!:redface:
 
No Service Rifle is actually "Service Conditions" which allows any gun and any sight to be used. Atleast the Service Rifle matches I am talking about. They are not "Vintage" rifle matches which then I think the iron sight rule applies. American Service Rifle shooting is done with "As issued" rifles as well.

In theory I guess you can use a muzzle loader but I'm not sure if you'd have enough time to load it the required amount of times and fire it. :)

Dimitri
 
We are shooters. We have small and simple brains. Well, we might have large and capable brains when we're not looking through our sights, but our brains are surprisingly small and incompetent when we are looking through rifle sights and trying to focus, aim, and break a good shot - we make all sorts of dumb mistakes that we'd never imagine possible. So it's a good thing that we like to drink beer afterwards, and we have a good sense of humour and can laugh about our stupid mistakes and our friends stupid mistakes.

I am skeptical of my own ability to lie down at 500 yards, consult my notebook and see "my rifle is zeroed at 400 yards, I am shooting at 500 yards, so I need to hold 1.1 mils high". That's a pretty easy and straightforward shooting plan, and I can imagine the sight picture, and I can draw it for you, and I can show you on a plotting board what it will look like. And I am quite confident that I can dry fire 20 out of 20 perfectly aimed shots in this way. And I am also quite confident that I can probably oad up the rifle and fire at least 19 out of 20 pretty damn near perfectly aimed shots this way, in competition, while reading wind, and under match pressure.

But if I am to be honest with myself, and with you, I will have to admit that there's a decent enough chance that perhaps one time in twenty I might slip up, and aim and break an absolutely perfectly centred shot. Right down the middle, absolutely, perfectly centred and lined up. The way that a sight picture is supposed to look. Which of course I will realize the moment the rifle goes "bang", which is about a tenth of a second too late to save three, or four, or more points. You see, my shooting brain is a small and simple brain... ;-)

If I were coaching myself, I'd trust myself much more to use a good scope with good reliable mechanically repeatable adjustments, and to dial in the amount of adjustment that I need. And to carefully read the scales, to ensure that I really have adjusted it correctly, and not one full revolution out (see: list of dumb mistakes shooters make...! ;-).
 
The Rapid Z reticles on Zeiss scopes use this idea. They have hold overs for the various distances. Also the lines on the reticle can be used for range estimation just like a mil-dot. The reticle was designed by Pride Fowler and as I recall was made for military applications.
 
Try this. Find a milk jug sized object at 200 to 400yds - any boulder will do.

Grab your rifle, sight up and shoot in a few seconds. Each shot you get out of shooting position then 'sling up' but don't look through the scope until ready to shoot. Give yourself only a few seconds to go from ready position to firing.

I bet if you do 10 shots, you will misread the right mildot a few times. It is deceptively easy to do.

Picket fence reticels like the MP8 and similar are even tougher to use quickly because there are so many fine lines. Try counting those hash marks under the stress of time and I bet you screw up enough times to throw a relay.

For slow fire shooting or for aiming adjustments, sure but it is definitely a way to screw up if you are under time stress.

Take a page from the Russians who seem to have figured out most things tactical 50yrs ago. BDC turrent with a big a$$ aiming chevron that you 'point' at your target.

Hash marks for windage only as that is easy to adjust for. We seem to accept moving left and right off a target more so then aiming over or under (practise will help but it is not natural way to aim).

I am not a fan of BDC turrents as they are far from precise but for min of bad guy, good enough. For precision work, dialing up is the only way to make hits at LR on a repeatable basis.

But it is slower...

Jerry
 
Dimitri said:
No Service Rifle is actually "Service Conditions" which allows any gun and any sight to be used. Atleast the Service Rifle matches I am talking about. They are not "Vintage" rifle matches which then I think the iron sight rule applies. American Service Rifle shooting is done with "As issued" rifles as well.

In theory I guess you can use a muzzle loader but I'm not sure if you'd have enough time to load it the required amount of times and fire it. :)

Dimitri
Click to expand...

Interesting... Any good resource for reading about this type of match? Will any scoped bolt-aciton do? When I picture service rifle, I picture some guy in a drill sargeant uniform shooting prone using his sling for support instead of a bipod while peeking through a pair of irons.
 
There is a entire section of this forum dedicated to Service Rifle above the hunting section. ;)

The current rule is "Any Rifle, Any Sight" so any rifle will do with any sight you wish to use.

Dimitri
 
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