Longbranch Dual Serial got me stumped

dannyd123

dannyd123

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Hi Smelie, Buffdog and the rest of the CGN community.

I have a bit of a stumper. I have had this Longbranch for a bit and have tried looking up the weird serial it has, but it doesnt seem to conform to any of the common numbering.

A bit of background:
1945 Longbranch No4 Mk1*
Full wood. Matching numbers on the stock, barrel, reciever (with the typical longbranch top serial number). LB stamped everywhere else. Even patina.
Bolt is mismatched but has the same number font as the atypical lower serial number.

What is the lower atypical serial number from? Renumbering from longbranch? If so when? I would like to know more if I can. This one got me stumped.
Here are some pics:

2013-02-19155248.jpg


2013-02-19155423.jpg


2013-02-19155413.jpg
 
Poor thing has been attacked by a mad Armourer.

Betcha a nickel that they hid some British proof marks under the top wood. Check the left side of the Chamber, 10 o'clock.

She has been carried a lot and bashed about, but that often indicates a rifle which was not shot a lot. No matter; it's honest wear and tear and it shows that she SERVED: one to be proud of.

How does she shoot?
 
An additional number got added for whatever reason. Maybe the Mk. I sight was installed during that period of use. Is it a British sight?
 
Not sure where the second number came from. I used to think New Zealand. It is not that rare, I think I may have one or two downstairs with a similar serial number added. Perhaps the reason for the extra number was LB's very small serial numbers.
 
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As STENCOLLECTOR notes, these are not that rare. I have one myself, but it has been factory sporterized. The Lee-Enfields were used by many other Countries and these Countries renumbered them to suit their own purposes. Co-incidental is that mine also has an "AL" prefix serial number.

While there are many "guesses" as to just who put these extra numbers on these rifles, ( take your pick, New Zealand, Arab, or even English Trade Gun Companies, ) there does not seem to be any supporting documentation as to who did it.
 
The New Zealanders had a batch of Long Branches, either really early or really late (I forget which).

About fifteen years ago someone had a catastrophic failure incident on a range in New Zealand, and the solution was to ban firing of No.4s on military ranges. No amount of expert advice or influence from the sport shooters would convince the authorities to change the ruling. AFAIR, the decision was premised on the unknown service life and unmeasurable strain on the action from surplus and handloads. It is possible that an enterprising gun dealer bought up as many No.4s as he could and exported them to somewhere more appreciative.
 
Like everybody says, probably an export to NZ or other commonwealth country. My NZ has an NZ stamp right over the numbers on the socket. Is your socket scrubbed over the serial numbers or is that the lighting?
 
Alexjager said:
I have one like that. I saw somewhere on the web that these ones were used by India state forces.
Click to expand...

FWIW, this ^^^^ is what I found out in researching the "AL" marking on a '41 Long Branch I acquired a couple of years back. Nothing definitive, or substantiated in writing, but apparently a result of research by folks chasing down similar markings on Thompson sub-machine guns.
 
If we are looking for logic, India would make sense. They did (do?) have a rework arsenal at Allahabad; I have a Martini with their roundel.
 
I've seen a couple of these myself. Any I have seen have been very rough and some questionable repairs completed. No "Ishy screws" to indicate formal time spent in India. Due to the rough use and crude repairs, I would guess one of the smaller, third world countries had these rifles rather than New Zealand, but that is just a guess.
 
smellie said:
Poor thing has been attacked by a mad Armourer.

Betcha a nickel that they hid some British proof marks under the top wood. Check the left side of the Chamber, 10 o'clock.

She has been carried a lot and bashed about, but that often indicates a rifle which was not shot a lot. No matter; it's honest wear and tear and it shows that she SERVED: one to be proud of.

How does she shoot?
Click to expand...

I will check when I get home from work.

She shoots really great. The bore has plenty of life on her, and has the same amount of wear as all my other Enfields minus my FTR'd No4 Mk1/2 which is NOS. The firing pin broke on her before, but I replaced it.
I have a whole bunch of once fired brass from her, so once I reload them I can get a better handle on how she preforms. Last time I shot her was just after thanksgiving, and she was exploding those mini decorative pumpkins at 100 yards with every shot with stock PRIVI ammo and o-rings.

Thanks for the replies everyone!
 
tiriaq said:
An additional number got added for whatever reason. Maybe the Mk. I sight was installed during that period of use. Is it a British sight?
Click to expand...

Yes, british sight. Milled Mk1

points said:
Like everybody says, probably an export to NZ or other commonwealth country. My NZ has an NZ stamp right over the numbers on the socket. Is your socket scrubbed over the serial numbers or is that the lighting?
Click to expand...

Its just the lighting. The patina looks the same on the wrist when I view it now.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
About fifteen years ago someone had a catastrophic failure incident on a range in New Zealand, and the solution was to ban firing of No.4s on military ranges. No amount of expert advice or influence from the sport shooters would convince the authorities to change the ruling. AFAIR, the decision was premised on the unknown service life and unmeasurable strain on the action from surplus and handloads. It is possible that an enterprising gun dealer bought up as many No.4s as he could and exported them to somewhere more appreciative.
Click to expand...

What a lot load of crap! wtf (w being "where") did you here that one??
In 2000 the Trentham range was closed by the NZDF due to concerns over ricocheting bullets, nothing to do with exploding No4s.
A few years ago there was a incident at the Kaitoke range near Wellington during the "ANZAC Day 303 shoot" that i believe involved a No4, there were some minor injuries, but the general consensus was "the opening of the bolt on a hang-fire"

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0012/S00264.htm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=163081
 
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maple_leaf_eh said:
The New Zealanders had a batch of Long Branches, either really early or really late (I forget which).

About fifteen years ago someone had a catastrophic failure incident on a range in New Zealand, and the solution was to ban firing of No.4s on military ranges. No amount of expert advice or influence from the sport shooters would convince the authorities to change the ruling. AFAIR, the decision was premised on the unknown service life and unmeasurable strain on the action from surplus and handloads. It is possible that an enterprising gun dealer bought up as many No.4s as he could and exported them to somewhere more appreciative.
Click to expand...


haha...what ?

I'm relatively new to this, but I've never heard, read or otherwise come across anything like this. I just googled it, and guess what...nothing.

I'd double check your facts before inferring No4's blow up.

Maybe someone smarter than me can chime in.

edit: nvr mind...5THBATT has it covered...I should read the entire thread before being a smartass
 
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I have '43 LB with the same-2 serial numbers,both punched the same way like pics in this threat.

Second number also starts with AL but it has added bonus-something painted (red paint) on the butstock that looks like C and arrow except arrow pints to the right unlike Canadian marking.

Stock is very dark and used hard but it doesn't have Ishy screw or "that damn crack" I keep reading about.

also rifle came to to me with 2 position sight.Well,that got replaced fast and I'm keeping original.

BTW-Many thanks to Brian,CGN member,who helped me along with getting this LE running.
 
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