longrange load for 308

bulldog284

bulldog284

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has anyone tryed the lapua 185 scenars or the 190 sierras for longrange out to a 1000y.i would like to shoot the 185 bergers but they are next to impossible to get on a regular basis.

i am wondering how they these 2 would stack up to the bergers?also what powder to use to get the most out of them,i have a 30 inch barrel.

thanks :nest:
 
Hey bulldog

Like you I was interested in the performance of the 185 Lapua Scenars because of availability however when talking with Bryan Litz he suggested that is was inferior to the 155 Scenars see bolded text so for the time being until I figure out how to shoot the 210s I will stick with the 155’s. Here are his comments

As for your question, here's a performance analysis that shows the relative wind deflection which is the most important measure of ballistic merit for LR target shooting. The analysis assumes you can get 3000 fps with the 155's, and scales the velocity down for the heavier bullets according to an equal chamber pressure assumption. In other words, if you can achieve 3000 fps with the 155's, you can only achieve 2823 fps with the 175's with the same chamber pressure. Assuming equal muzzle velocities for bullets of different weight is not a fair comparison.
The comparison is relative, so if you can only get 2900 with the 155's, the basic conclusions of the analysis still hold, but the amount of wind deflection for each round will be a little more than shown. The important thing is the relative performance among the bullets.

Wind deflection is for a 10 mph crosswind at 1000 yards in standard conditions.

155 Scenar (G7 BC = 0.236)
MV = 3000 fps
Wind deflection = 93"

175 SMK (G7 BC = 0.243)
MV = 2823 fps
Wind deflection = 97"

175 VLD (G7 BC = 0.255)
MV = 2823 fps
Wind deflection = 91"

185 Scenar (G7 BC = 0.247)
MV = 2746 fps
Wind deflection = 100"

Analysis: When you account for the velocity advantage you get with the lighter bullet, it's hard to beat (in this case, when compared against the others you asked about). The 155 has a 4" advantage over the 175 SMK, but the 175 VLD is 2" better. In practical terms, it would be difficult to resolve that difference in terms of points (on the scorecard) when the difference is only 2" to 4" in ~ 95". The reason why the VLD is better than the SMK is because of the lower drag profile of the bullet and the higher BC that results.

The 185 Scenar is reputedly a very accurate bullet, but it's got a relatively high drag profile which results in more wind deflection than the others.

Suggestion: You won't be giving up much performance by shooting with the 155 Scenar compared to the other bullets you listed. For what it's worth, the bullet I'll be shooting in Palma competition this year is the Berger 185 BT:

Berger 185 BT (G7 BC = 0.283)
MV = 2746 fps
Wind deflection = 82"

This bullet requires a 1:12" twist to stabilize, and is easy to find accuracy with since it's a tangent ogive (like the SMK) and not a VLD.

I hope this was useful for you,
Good luck,
-Bryan
 
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thanks Bryan

i have and had good luck with 175 smk,and i would shoot the 155 over them but it wont be the scenars i am having a very hard time to get them to shoot in my krieger and it is a 1 in 12 twist,just cant get the accuracy out of them that i can out of the berger 155.5 and the sierra 2156.and i am over 3000fps.

I would like to shoot the bergers 185 bt but cant get my hands on them??thats why i was thinking of the 190 smk or even a 200 plus grain.

Witch poweder would you recement for the 185s and the 200s?? thanks Darin
 
bulldog284 said:
i have and had good luck with 175 smk,and i would shoot the 155 over them but it wont be the scenars i am having a very hard time to get them to shoot in my krieger and it is a 1 in 12 twist,just cant get the accuracy out of them that i can out of the berger 155.5 and the sierra 2156.and i am over 3000fps.
Click to expand...

Drag-wise, the three best 155s are the Lapua 155 Scenar, the Sierra #2156, and the Berger 155.5 Fullbore. All are extremely high quality bullets.

The Lapua 155 can be a tricky bullet to get to shoot well. Also, it is well-suited to long-throated chambers, and poorly suited to short-throated chambers such as my JGS .308 Obermayer, or the even shorter Warner 95 Palma. (here are some measurements comparing Lapua 155 to both old and new Sierra 155)

The Berger 155.5 is reportedly very easy to get to shoot well. I understand that the Sierra #2156 is straightforward, but I don't know if it is touchier than the #2155 Sierra (old Palma) or not.

The Sierra #2156 is very well suited to short throated chambers.

I will have shot Lapua 155s for many years (since they year they were introduced in fact). I will be evaluating Sierra #2156 and Berger 155.5s for use this year.

I would like to shoot the bergers 185 bt but cant get my hands on them??thats why i was thinking of the 190 smk or even a 200 plus grain.
Click to expand...

The Sierra 190MK would be a step backwards. It's a wonderful bullet, but it is only a "medium performance" match bullet, it is not an exceptionally high performance bullet (the above-listed three 155s are; the Berger 185BT is; the Berger 210VLD is)
 
If you point them, the Lapua 155 comes out on top as it nearly has the same BC as the 155.5 FBBT, but with a much larger meplat out of the box. So, it gains much more from the pointing operation.

Here is a comparison of the 155's, out of the box:
http://tinyurl.com/yhpmz9v
It's Litz approved...
 
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I would go with the 210 for availability in Canada everyone seems to stock Sierra’s it would be hunting them down that would be the challenging part. The Sierra 210 are a common choice for UK guys trying to get to 1200 same reason availability. One recent report of a 308 build shooting the 210 had an avg. muzzle velocity of 2700 (unconfirmed) if this is even close to being right that would be outstanding as the wind deflection would be in the 72 inches.

Their powder for the test was N500…not sure if the double based would work in North America as it is temperature sensitive and our weather swings are much more extreme then in the UK. Other possible options would be RE15 or IMR4895 Ganderite already suggested N150 which seems to be solid option.

One of the UK F Class shooters G. Barnard finished top three at Bisley this past summer shooting the 210 Sierra’s I don’t have any of his load details.

There is a lengthy report of 208 AMAX using RE17 i will see if i can find it again. I thought it was over on Snipershide.

Trevor
 
Daniel
that makes sence what you said about the 155 scenars not liking a short throat in my chamber touching the lands overall lenght is 2.776 and i have way to much bullet in the case taking up room thats with the scenars.

I just bought a throater reamer and was thinking of bushing it out .120 thousands to give me more room and it would be better aswell if i wanted to use the 185 or the 208?

This year in ftr i think alot of the guys are going to go to the heavier bullets to gain that little extra less drift,i now that my barrel will stabalize the 185 just fine but am unsure about the 200 plus grain bullets.everyone seems to say rl17 is the way to go for those.I think i will try the185s with varget and see what it does.I tryed to day so 4064 with the sierra 180 match and it was not very good only one load of 44.2 seem ok 3/4 moa at 200 yards.
Darin
 
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