Looking at getting a Lathe, looking for a little guidance!

Rotaxpower

Rotaxpower

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Looking to get a lathe to learn on and hope down the road to chamber barrels on and thread muzzles ect. I have a bit of a dilemma on what to do though. Dad has a old 10"X36 Atlas lathe sitting in storage that has no tooling, no chuck on it, and has some rust on the bed. Is this lathe worth bring back into service? I know I won't be chambering any barrels on it, and would probably have to upgrade down the road. But I think it would be ok to learn on. So here comes my next question, I see on Busy Bee tools they have a nice Craftex 13X24 lathe with a spindle bore of 1.5" it also says on the site it would be a good gun smithing lathe it is listed at $2400, plus $500 for shipping. Would it be wiser to get the Craftex lathe and just use it or spend the money on the old Atlas? Has anyone ran one of these Craftex lathes and opinions on them? I know some of you guys will tell me to buy a used lathe, but in the last 2 years any that come up for sale they seem to want top dollar for a well used machine. Thanks for your guys help!
 
Go to Gunsmithing and search, punch in Lathe & Mill ? , 06-07-2014. Quite a bit of good info. there. --- John
 
Decent work has been done with the old Atlas lathes, even though they are not a heavy machine. You would need to use a steady rest to chamber barrels - the spindle bore is likely too small to pass a barrel through. Parts and accessories can be had.
The Craftex lathe you mention does not have a quick change gearbox; at one time this model did not have a threading dial. It is a pretty basic lathe.
 
A friend has an Atlas 10" that he hates so much he won't sell it to anyone for fear they will hate him for it.

He bought it pretty well tooled up, and had nothing but grief with it. He has a Rockwell 10" now, that he is quite happy with.

Good tools won't make you a good machinist, but bad ones make it even harder...

A $3K budget should get you a heck of a lathe for a hobbyist. $500 shipping would make me snort and walk away pretty fast!

Not saying by any means that the Atlas might not be worth putting any time in to, but try not to get sucked in to spending a bunch of money on anything that you cannot transfer to the 'next' machine!

Cheers
Trev
 
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The Atlas 10x36 Lathe is a good lathe, and I have used one for over 35 years without too much trouble. It did what I wanted it to do, but was limited by the smaller hole through the headstock. I made a "spider" for the outboard end of the headstock shaft, and then could dial in a barrel fairly easily but you had to put the barrels in muzzle first from the working end and Varmint heavy barrels were not really possible to work on, except between centers.

Like any technology, Lathes have evolved over the years and many improvements made. If I were to buy one today, I would look at a more modern one, but saying that, the old Atlas does what I want it to do, and I am acquainted with it's habits and workings. Tooling is now the problem with the Atlas, and you are going to have to go mostly to E-Bay if you want some so that is going to be expensive. Three and four jaw new imported chucks are available, and a while ago I bought a very good Chinese manufactured one for a hair over a hundred dollars, so if you want to practice a bit, setting up the old Atlas would not cost you too much for a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck. The big thing is the speed control ----does it have a full set of change gears, or is it a quick change gear box. Manuals for the Atlas are available online.
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Unless I was paying for it's equivalent weight in scrap I personally wouldn't touch Craftex, King, Busy Bee, or any similar style equipment. It's just a waste of money. Some of the model train/plane people have moderate success with them but their standards and tolerances are low.

While your Atlas comes with no guarantees that it's going to come out of storage and function well, that would be your best starting point. You might have to invest a hundred or 2 to get it back up and running but it's a far superior investment that spending a dime on a Craftex.

Google Atlas Lathe's and your sure to find a number of forums that deal with them and people who can help you get it back up and running. Then you can start tooling it up for the fraction of the cost of even the cheapest quality lathe.

If for some reason the Atlas is toast your next best bet would be to part out the functional pieces and take that cash and start shopping for quality. Craigslist and Kijiji are your friends. WTB adds are one of the best ways to motivate someone to finally get rid of the lathe they've had gathering dust for years. A well planned road trip to Toronto can pay off well to. You'll find a better selection of machines in more price points. As with everything research and good planning is key. Start reading up on machining in general and get a good idea of what you want, what you need, what you can afford, and how to make it all come together. gl
 
GSG1911 said:
Unless I was paying for it's equivalent weight in scrap I personally wouldn't touch Craftex, King, Busy Bee, or any similar style equipment. It's just a waste of money. Some of the model train/plane people have moderate success with them but their standards and tolerances are low.....
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That leaves us with only the higher end lathes that cost as much as a car. Hardly the investment that many want to make for a hobby.

You're also being less than fair to these machines. Granted they come with some rough edges and little things that need to be fixed in time. But from what I've seen the basics are decent on many of them.

And before you say that beginners should all buy old South Bends or similar consider that many of the older lathes were abused and will come with worn beds that require re-grinding before they can do accurate work. This won't be the case all the time but it will happen often enough and a newbie won't know what to look for to avoid such a machine.

Rotax, you've got a lot of learning to do before you're ready to chamber or thread barrels. That Atlas can serve as a cheap way to get SOMETHING on which to learn. But as Trevj points out above a lathe isn't much good without the tooling. And a lot of the tooling and fixtures will be specific to that lathe. So I would not suggest spending a LOT of time and money on it only to have to replace a lot of the tooling and fixtures later on for a bigger and better lathe. But it is certainly worth pulling out to clean up and more closely inspect. And if the bed ways seem crisp and straight it's worth getting it running even as a basic setup. You can learn a lot for cheap that way. And with enough added tooling to make it useable it'll be worth more when you sell it to make room to upgrade to a nicer machine more suitable for gunsmithing.
 
One of the little bench lathes is not going to work well for chambering unless it has an oversize spindle.

You can do accurate work in just about any lathe, assuming you work within its limits

However, chambering outboard of the headstock on a small lathe will not leave enough room for the reamer and holder.
 
Are you anywhere near Estevan?

Reason I ask, is that there is a Model Engineering show coming up there, usually a couple lathes for sale, and at least one guy that deals in new import machines.

Lots of books and such, too.

Wylie Mitchell Building, Estevan, weekend after Thanksgiving (17-18 October, off the top of my head). Search for the Estevan Model Engineering Show online and you will find the info, as well as some pictures of what has showed up there in the past. Worth the visit, IMO.

I usually try to make it there, dunno if I will this year or not, but probably. May be all traveled out by then.

Yeah, that Atlas. Dig it out and see where you sit as far as tools and tooling for it. If you have a three jaw chuck and a tool post, you can do some basics and start learning, in any case. A couple hundred bucks spent on odds and ends is a reasonable amount to spend if it can bring the lathe to a useful state, but try to keep an eye upon th end goal, whether you want a hobby of using the machine tools, or rebuilding/restoring them!

I have said in the past, will say now, and will continue to say into the future, that the lathe on your workbench, no matter how crappy it may seem to others, is far far better than the very best catalog picture out there!

Yer gonna have to learn to grind some tools. Get over the moaning and get grinding, and you will get good at it faster than you will moaning about how hard it is to learn something new. Otherwise, you spend a bunch of money on inserts, and a bunch of time waiting for them to come in the mail. Then a bunch more money, and time, once you have learned how very easy it is to chip a carbide insert!
Skip the brazed carbide for the time being. The stuff has it's uses, but if you are just getting started, better to have a cutting tool that you can sharpen.

I am pretty fond of 3/16" and 1/4" HSS but the larger ones are easier to see the angles on. Busy Bee sells HSS blanks cheap enough at regular prices, and really cheap on sale. Yep, it's Chinese HSS, but it works. Buy some 1/4" square bits and a couple 3/8". Grab one or two of the rectangular section bits as well.

One of these days I am gonna have to get off my arse and do a decent set of photos showing some basic grinds that I like to use. Nothing too complicated, but I have a couple grinds that I used to show the trainees at work that were pretty easy to get good results with.

I use a Sharpie marker on the bits to mark out the angles and where I plan on removing the metal, so as to keep track of where the end result is aimed at, when teaching this stuff. An angle gauge or protractor is pretty handy too, but just having an idea what more or less five degrees looks like is usually about all you really need to have an idea of to make a working tool. The key pretty much boils down to having a sharp edge that only touches the work where it is supposed to.

Got books? How to Run a Lathe can be downloaded if you go looking. Atlas published their own book, too, it contains some stuff that is different from the South Bend book, and the pictures in it are all Atlas machines if that matters to you.

If I had to suggest just one book, get a copy of Technology of Machine Tools by Krar. High School/College level shop manual. Buy an older version, rather than buying a new one. The older books have more manual machining, less CNC. Much lower prices too!

I am biased! I really like books, and have a huge library of reference material to dig through. But that one, is the first one on my list as a general How To book to have, if a fella does not have any other.

Cheers
Trev
 
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I own a Craftex, http://www.busybeetools.com/products/LATHE-METAL-10IN.-X-18IN.-3{47}4-HP-CRAFTEX.html.

It can do 80% of what I want to do. Some days I wish I would of had an extra $1000 or two when I was looking for one. It is a good lathe to learn on but not really a good lathe to do quality gun smithing on.

the chuck can be out as much as 3-5 thou when using something soft like aluminum, 2-3 thou out when using steel. I had to shim the tail stock to gt the centers to match up.

To be honest i would not sell this lathe as it is a nice little table top, I wish I could afford an nicer lathe (and mill) to put beside it
 
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Yomama, NEVER trust a self centering chuck to center truly. Between play in the scroll and swarf packing into the scroll and where on the scroll the teeth of the jaws are sitting it's a crap shoot.

If you want to center the work for secondary operations after the initial turning you NEED to mount and learn to use your 4 jaw independent chuck and use a dial guage to center the work. It's a skill to learn just like any other. But with a system and working at some practice you can soon learn to zero to within a half thou runout within a couple of minutes.
 
Gunslinger said:
I've been toying with the same idea, just looking for something to use for general stuff. Of the two below which do you experts think would be the better lathe? I know sweet bugger all about lathes but have to start somewhere. :)

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Variable-Speed-Lathe/G0752
http://www.grizzly.com/products/11-x-26-Bench-Lathe-w-Gearbox/G9972Z
Click to expand...

Don't know which of these is better, but either is a rather small machine, which would be best suited for smaller parts.
 
CanAm said:
A simple rule is to buy the heaviest machine you can afford.
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And that you can move if you have to!

I ended up buying a 16 foot trailer as well as a pallet dolly and an engine hoist, for my last move!

Gotta be able to adapt, unless you know you will never have to move the stuff.


Cheers
Trev
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. It's giving me a lot of food for though! trevj I live about 45 mins north of Estevan, I may have to check out that show, it sounds Kinda interesting to check out even if there isn't any lathes that show up there!

I think next weeks project will be to pull out the old atlas and just see what I have to work with. Right now it's buried under a junk pile :(

I will keep you guys posted on the progress!
 
If you don't mind downloading stuff, go to pirate bay and search AGI. You can download the lathe course and save yourself a lot of grief and time learning the basics.
 
Oh, almost forgot. While I've been machining metal since I was barely into my teens a lot of my early years were sort of by look and feel. Back in my mid 30's when I got my lathe I got serious about learning the right way to do some of the stuff where I'd winged it before. One book that really stood out was the small MAP book called "The Amateur's Lathe" by a guy named Sparey. The pictures are dated but the information on how to do stuff is very solid gold.

Perhaps check and see if the local library has one or can bring it in from a main branch for you. It is WORTH the effort.
 
Sub the following youtubers for a great course in machine work:

abom79
oxcotool
mrpete222

mr pete is a retired shop teacher and is an excellent instructor who also produces a course you can buy.
 
BCRider said:
Oh, almost forgot. While I've been machining metal since I was barely into my teens a lot of my early years were sort of by look and feel. Back in my mid 30's when I got my lathe I got serious about learning the right way to do some of the stuff where I'd winged it before. One book that really stood out was the small MAP book called "The Amateur's Lathe" by a guy named Sparey. The pictures are dated but the information on how to do stuff is very solid gold.

Perhaps check and see if the local library has one or can bring it in from a main branch for you. It is WORTH the effort.
Click to expand...

Busy Bee usually stocks that one too. Good book.

But I may be biased. :) I like books!

Seriously, it is well written and will make you see the possibilities.
The books by George H Thomas are really good too.

Lesse. Back to Busy Bee, look at Workholding in the Lathe, and Milling in the Lathe, by a guy who wrote under the name Tubal Cain. His real name was Tom Walshaw, and he wrote another book on Ornamental Turning that is worth reading too.

Cheers
Trev
 
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