Looking for a new black rifle to replace my AR15...**New Update: Answer in post #33**

Which rifle is best to replace my AR15?

  • SL-8

    Votes: 22 8.6%

  • FS2000

    Votes: 21 8.2%

  • Tavor

    Votes: 43 16.8%

  • XCR

    Votes: 63 24.6%

  • Piston AR15

    Votes: 21 8.2%

  • None of the above

    Votes: 21 8.2%

  • Keep the original AR15

    Votes: 65 25.4%
  • Total voters
    256
Master-G

Master-G

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It's the depth of winter and to fight off cabin fever I've got the hankering for a new black rifle. I'm thinking of replacing my Colt AR-15 HBAR with something different. I use my AR mainly for ISU-style shooting--that is, prone shooting at 300m (NSRA has an annual ISU competition with a Service Rifle category) so I'd be looking for something good for that type of shooting...weight is not really a concern, nor is restricted vs. non-restricted. A replacement rifle would need to have a good trigger and very good to excellent accuracy.

I was originally thinking maybe of a Swiss Arms rifle but the prices have gone eye-wateringly stratospheric--$3700 for a new one and around $3300 used in the EE :eek: and my limit is $2800 tops. That got me thinking maybe an H&K SL-8 might satisfy my craving. For folks that have tried SL-8's and AR-15's how do they compare? How is the trigger and accuracy? Also, I need to mount an optic--I've seen some SL-8's on the EE with the 3x G36 optic--is that a good choice for precise aiming? I've got an Elcan today (yeah, I know it's not the best combat rifle scope but it's a damn good range scope)--has anyone tried an Elcan on their SL-8?

If you think the SL-8 is not the best choice is there another rifle I should be considering? I was thinking maybe an FS2000 or Tavor, although the Tavor's availability seems questionable. Has anyone tried out their FS2000 yet? Is the Robinson XCR worth a shot? Or should I stick with my tried and true AR-15? Thanks in advance for your advice!

**Question answered (again) in post #33**
 
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I just went through the same question, and I went with the XCR. It is cheaper than the Swiss Arms, takes 10 round mags and runs awesome. I would have got a Tavor, but I didnt really want a Bullpup. The Sl8 is a long rifle, but people seem to say it is nice and accurate. I think the XCR wins the trigger contest.
 
What about an LMT MRP with a stainless barrel (should be more accurate than chrome lined barrels) and 2 stage trigger? Add a good optic and you're set.
 
ESQ said:
What about an LMT MRP with a stainless barrel (should be more accurate than chrome lined barrels) and 2 stage trigger? Add a good optic and you're set.
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Hmmm...interesting idea--is Questar the best source? I do have a 10.5" LMT that I really like, but I was thinking of trying something a little different from the AR platform.
 
Check out the HK416 or the the SL8, very nice rifles. I have the trijicon acog TA3 mounted on the SL8...deadly accurate and it's fun to shoot, and the price for a lightly used will cost around what...$2000+/-...very good deal, and the rifle is easy to take apart for cleaning.
CHEERS.
 
put an ad in the ee for a SAN classic green for 2800 you may find one. Esq had a heck of an idea, you can really make that colt very very accurate with the right barrel. Don't forget SAN's hold their value so when you have had your fun you should be able to get what you paid or only slightly less. If you can swing it do, great triggers and accurate with the right ammo. I have not shot the HK TAVOR or XCR so can't comment, but can comment on the SAN, I think you'd be happy if you could swing one.
 
I'd go XCR, cheaper than most of the above, readily available, takes your AR mags, NON-RESTRICTED, easy swap of multiple calibres. Where's the downside? (a little front heavy maybe).
 
I have an SL8 and that is about all I have shot, so I won't speculate.

I personally like my SL8. Heavy barrel is nice and the trigger is pretty good. I got it so I can use it on and off the range. I haven't had a chance to run heavy bullets through it yet, but with 55's it shoots MOA or better. Note this is a consistent average, some days you can do alot better, others not so great. But if you can get your hands on some heavy bullets, I would hope they are pretty accurate give the fast twist barrel.

If you want to keep your AR mags for the SL8, wolverine sells a magwell conversion for the SL8.
 
The only guns in the group that will come close to the accuracy of your AR at that distance are the SL-8 and Sig, in that order.
The rest might be fun for sh!ts and giggles, but you will be handicapping yourself in the competition.
 
Upgrade your AR, there are, so many accessories on the market now, you can upgrade your AR almost to a different gun for half the cost of new rifle.
 
Bringing this thread back from the past with an update -- as suggested by NavyShooter and PowerPill upthread I've decided on an FS2000. I had managed to find some pretty good deals on Swiss Arms rifles and SL-8's but I found out that these are not eligible NSRA's Service Arms competition. The rule is that the rifle needs to be a current or past NATO or British Commonwealth-issued rifle, and neither of those two met that category -- the Swiss Arms rifles aren't issue rifles (although they're in limited use ina few NATO countries) and the SL-8 ins't close enough to the G36 to qualify. I went through, I think every NATO and Commonwealth country and believe me, there are not that many non-prohib rifles issued -- most countries use either the M16 (or variant), the G36 (which would've been nice except for the $$) or something prohib like the FAMAS, SA80, FNC or especially the H&K G3. Except, as i learned, for newish NATO member Slovenia, who issue the FN F2000.

So, when I saw Kodiak Outfitters get some tactical models in stock I ordered one up -- I had to sell a few to pay for this so hopefully it'll be worth it. It just arrived today so I haven't had a chance to take it to the range yet -- here are my first impressions (my wife said "Oh my God that thing is ugly!" when I unpacked it). It really is a lot smaller than it looks -- have a look at the bottom picture compared with a 10.5" LMT, with the stock partially collapsed (it's where I usually have it). The FS2000 is actually a smidge shorter, but shortness does not necessarily translate into handiness -- the LMT is decidedly lighter-handling. However, compared with a full-size AR15, the FS2000 is much handier.

The trigger pull is much better than I expected after what I had read -- it's a two-stage affair and the first stage is pretty heavy. But, once you pull through it until you feel the resistance of the second stage, the break is very crisp. I think that years of shooting polymer-framed autos has prepared me well for it. The combination of RRA 10-round magazines and C-Products tactipul floorplates look like they were made for this rifle -- they stick out just enough to grab onto -- they need to be yanked out as there's a gasket around the mag well.

I had the Elcan scope already -- it's a little heavier than I'd like on the rifle but it fits well eye-relief wise, and I've always liked the Elcan's glass and reticle pattern. The rifle dissembles easily with just one pin that needs to be pushed out -- although there's a worryingly high amount of plastic in the rifle's insides (even the hammer!) :). I would feel a bit more comforted having a rifle with more steel in it, but I also enjoy having something unique and certainly modern in design.

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My God, that thing is uglier than Ugly Betty falling from the treehouse and hitting every branch on the way down. To add to the flavour, you put some Elcan glass on too! :p

Just kidding. Whatever works for you and you are happy.

Now, your mission: In your drills of which you must perform to build confidence and muscle memory, you must make videos of your stoppage drills IOT demonstrate to CGNers for their PD.
 
LOL. This just proves, Master-G, how you don't need other people's opinions to sway your choice of ownership. Considering the fact that the FS2000 was the least voted out of all your choices. It's funny how it works out this way. Sometimes you just need to hear someone's advice on the contrary to decide you'll do it anyway.
 
Master-G said:
I had managed to find some pretty good deals on Swiss Arms rifles and SL-8's but I found out that these are not eligible NSRA's Service Arms competition. The rule is that the rifle needs to be a current or past NATO or British Commonwealth-issued rifle, and neither of those two met that category -- the Swiss Arms rifles aren't issue rifles (although they're in limited use ina few NATO countries) and the SL-8 ins't close enough to the G36 to qualify. I went through, I think every NATO and Commonwealth country and believe me, there are not that many non-prohib rifles issued -- most countries use either the M16 (or variant), the G36 (which would've been nice except for the $$) or something prohib like the FAMAS, SA80, FNC or especially the H&K G3. Except, as i learned, for newish NATO member Slovenia, who issue the FN F2000.
Click to expand...

A little off topic, and I'll pre-appologize for my rant,
but those rules are assinine.

1) The SL-8 is as close to a civilian version of a G-36 as the FS-2000 is to the F-2000.
2) If the Sigs are issued and fielded by NATO countries, how do they not qualify?
3) Why would it matter if it is used or fielded by a NATO or Commonwealth:jerkit: country? Isn't it about getting more shooters into the sport?
 
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