Looking for advice loading 80gr VLDs with Varget in a .223

T

Tikka223

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Looking for some pointers here.

Loads were shot at 300m on a windy day (wind seems to be mostly from 3&9 o’clock)

Rifle: T3 Varmint in .223 with 1/8 twist and 24” barrel.
Lapua brass
CCi BR4s
Berger 80gr VLDs
Varget:
24.0 = 2694.8fps with extreme spread of 35 and vertical spread of 1.438”
24.2 = 2727.4fps with extreme spread of 36 and vertical spread of 1.53”
24.4 = 2744.6fps with extreme spread of 20 and vertical spread of 1.158”

Primers are slightly flattened on all loads, including on my go-to load of 69gr SMKs with 26gr Varget. The bolt was not stiff and the cases easily rechamber.

Before I load more and hit the range again I would mind some more information. I couldn’t find much on google or CGN on 80gr VLDs and Varget. What are you folks using for load and what velocities are you getting? I feel like my velocity is a bit slow and I’d like to go higher on the load.

Thoughts?
 
I don’t know much about pressure signs and I don’t want to ruin my Lapua brass (stuff isn’t cheap!).

Case on the left is a brand new Lapua case with CCI BR4, middle is 24.4gr of Varget (80gr VLD) and the right is 26.0gr of Varget (69gr SMK)

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This is from the Hogdon website:

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the edges of those primers are still nice and rounded, stick to 24.4 and learn to read the wind
 
I shoot 80 SMK's with the same dose of Varget as you - play around with seating depth did tighten things up for me - ended up having the best results at 20 thou off. Ballistic chart with 80 smk and 80 VLD are eerily similar to a 308 with a 175 smk.
 
I’ll give it a shot (pardon the pun).

I think I’ll load more 24.4 and some 24.6 just to see what happens.

Seating depth is something I will have to do some reading on. I’ve never done much with it since I feed from a mag.
 
Why not start at 24.4gr and keep working up towards 25.something grs?

You have listed your vertical but we don't know how good/bad the horizontal was. Small changes in powder will have significant affects on both group size and vertical.

If curious, I would keep adding more fuel and find the top end of your tuning.

Jerry
 
The horizontal on the group was the wisest of the day (probably like 5”) but the least vertical. The wind was quite gusty from side to side so I would like to try 24.4 again. A few minutes prior I had shot a .5MOA group with 69gr SMKs, the group was also wider than tall. I also know that 24.4gr and 80gr VLDs ahoy very very well in a past Tikka that I owned with 1/8 twist barrel.
 
If you can group under 1.2" at 300 yards, on a windy day, with a factory rifle, I don't know if there's much room for improvement for either your load or your marksmanship. Switching from a VLD to a Matchking might allow you to get closer to the lands while still being able to load from the magazine. If you're going to single load the rounds, determine the length to the lands, and seat the bullet with the ogive contacting the lands. This will create the highest pressure, then as you experiment with incrementally longer jumps to the lands, pressure will reduce.

As for velocity, I think what you might be observing is that the MK load data you are referring to, develops more pressure, thus higher velocity, due to the longer bearing surface of the MK having more friction with the bore than the VLD. Perhaps try increasing your load until you develop 2850 fps, consider that represents the maximum pressure for an 80 gr VLD, but is an overload for a MK, then work backwards from there to see where your best accuracy lies. You might end up back in the same place, but then you would know.
 
Your primers are okay, bullets are not, the days of vlds are fading. Better oftions would be 80.5 and 82 bergers and the new 80 gr sierras pointed in no particular order.
The weekest point in your ammunition is your primers your es will drop if you weigh them and sort into same weights other wise get rid of cci br4 and only use fed gold match they are way better
i have shot out 4 barrels and the best load with 80 gr is 24.7 at 2940 fps out of a 30" bartlein 1/7
note couple of friends built custom guns with 1/8 twist they never shot quite as good as the 1/7 twist
check out berger web site they now have revampt and recommend 1/7 twist for there 80 to 82 gr bullets
there 4 or 5 guys in ottawa area shooting 1/7 twist 223 rem i have seen quite a few groups under .600" at 300m they all shoot varget and 24.5 to 24.8 gr
here is a three shot group at 300

View attachment 185315
 
manitou210 said:
Your primers are okay, bullets are not, the days of vlds are fading. Better oftions would be 80.5 and 82 bergers and the new 80 gr sierras pointed in no particular order.
The weekest point in your ammunition is your primers your es will drop if you weigh them and sort into same weights other wise get rid of cci br4 and only use fed gold match they are way better
i have shot out 4 barrels and the best load with 80 gr is 24.7 at 2940 fps out of a 30" bartlein 1/7
note couple of friends built custom guns with 1/8 twist they never shot quite as good as the 1/7 twist
check out berger web site they now have revampt and recommend 1/7 twist for there 80 to 82 gr bullets
there 4 or 5 guys in ottawa area shooting 1/7 twist 223 rem i have seen quite a few groups under .600" at 300m they all shoot varget and 24.5 to 24.8 gr
here is a three shot group at 300

View attachment 185315
Click to expand...

Interesting comments. Shame I have plenty of 80gr VLDs and CCIBR4s. That’s the main reason I’m trying to figure out this load. That and I’ve shot them out to 900m with good success in FTR. End goal here is to have a decent bullet and dope to practice PRS.
 
manitou210 said:
Your primers are okay, bullets are not, the days of vlds are fading. Better oftions would be 80.5 and 82 bergers and the new 80 gr sierras pointed in no particular order.
The weekest point in your ammunition is your primers your es will drop if you weigh them and sort into same weights other wise get rid of cci br4 and only use fed gold match they are way better
i have shot out 4 barrels and the best load with 80 gr is 24.7 at 2940 fps out of a 30" bartlein 1/7
note couple of friends built custom guns with 1/8 twist they never shot quite as good as the 1/7 twist
check out berger web site they now have revampt and recommend 1/7 twist for there 80 to 82 gr bullets
there 4 or 5 guys in ottawa area shooting 1/7 twist 223 rem i have seen quite a few groups under .600" at 300m they all shoot varget and 24.5 to 24.8 gr
here is a three shot group at 300

View attachment 185315
Click to expand...

Thats outstanding!

If I could do that at 100 I`d be happy!
 
My 1-8" 80 grain load is 23 grains of Varget in Lapua brass when I'm not in denial, and 23.5 when I'm in just a mild state of denial or it happens to be winter.Velocity is 2860 with the 23 grain out of a 28" Gaillard barrel.
 
I get it now. What are you running for OAL on your loads?

I just ran my velocity numbers in iSnipe and was surprised to see that the 69gr SMK and 80gr VLDS are quite similar. The VLD drops faster at first but finishes at 10.07 MILs at 900m while the SMK is 10.98 MILs at the same distance. The numbers wouldn’t change a whole lot even if I managed to get another 100fps out of the VLD (difference would be .2-.5 MIL spending on the distance).

Both drop more than 40’ at 1000m. I can’t believe Jerry at Mystic Precision took a .223 to a mile.
 
Tikka223 said:
I get it now. What are you running for OAL on your loads?

I just ran my velocity numbers in iSnipe and was surprised to see that the 69gr SMK and 80gr VLDS are quite similar. The VLD drops faster at first but finishes at 10.07 MILs at 900m while the SMK is 10.98 MILs at the same distance. The numbers wouldn’t change a whole lot even if I managed to get another 100fps out of the VLD (difference would be .2-.5 MIL spending on the distance).

Both drop more than 40’ at 1000m. I can’t believe Jerry at Mystic Precision took a .223 to a mile.
Click to expand...

If you end up shooting FTR at 900 m or 1000 yards against a shooter using a 1/6.5 or 7 twist and 90 gr Bergers BC 550 verses the 80 at 445 BC
you will quickly understand BCs make a huge difference. they will be going 100 fps faster at 900m than the 80s and with 24gr Varget and with 24 ++ grains its a huge difference, will be 200 fps at 900 but brass life is very short 3 or 4 and primer pockets are done
 
Tikka223 said:
Interesting comments. Shame I have plenty of 80gr VLDs and CCIBR4s. That’s the main reason I’m trying to figure out this load. That and I’ve shot them out to 900m with good success in FTR. End goal here is to have a decent bullet and dope to practice PRS.
Click to expand...
Your Br 4 primers are okay if you weigh them and sort them into plastic cups and seal after load the ones all weighing the same
next time buy Fed Gold Match way more consistent weight.
I fired 5 of lightest primes vs 5 of heaviest speed average was 49 ftps
 
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