Looking for info on Enfield No 1 Mk 1**

[Dyspnea]

I thought I would share my new purchase and hopefully someone will educate me a bit about it.

I bought it at auction today, 1904 enfield no1 Mk 1** in 22 LR. It did not come with a magazine, but I put a no1 mk3 mag in it for the time, would the mk3 mag be proper?. It has the magazine cut off slot and I temporarily added the mag cut off, in this configuration should it have one? The barrel is .22lr dated 1940, shiny and sharp as it could possibly be.

My biggest question is who would have likely converted this rifle.

The bolt, reciever, nose cap all have matching numbers, unfortunately the rear sight does not. The barrel does not have a serial number. And the volley sights are intact and working.

I payed 475 after taxes and fees. So I think I faired pretty well, at least I hope I did. But at the very least I can enjoy shooting an enfield on the cheap

Interest photo, a metal pin is inserted into the mag cut off screw hole.

 

[fenceline]

Cool!

I got no info to help. Just the "cool!" Haha.

 

[mr.e moose]

Mieir auctions by any chance? If so how where the prices today?

 

[Dyspnea]

Yea, meiers. Prices varied tt-33 going for 250 before the taxes and fees (%20). Sporter enfields were averaging $130 before fees and taxes. I bid on military longbranch mk1* with no mag, but it went above my budget of $350 before fees.

 

[smellie]

Rifle Number 1 Mark I** originally would have been a Short Magazine Lee-Enfield Mark I or I*, converted to Mark I**.

MOST were subsequently converted to Mark I***, in which configuration they pretty much mimicked the original Mark III rifle.

I have a 1904 LSA Mark I*** (Army conversion) and a 1907 Enfield Mark I*** (Navy conversion). Army conversions tend to be done "by the book" while the Navy just kept things running and brought them up-to-date when they were in for repairs. As a result, my Navy rifle has features which do NOT appear on a Mark III but which are correct for the original Mark I*. VERY confoozing to my tiny brain!

AS BUILT, this rifle would have had the early Nose Cap with the bent-inward ears, the original rear sight with fine-adjustment windgauge and buffalo-horn adjustment buttons and the sliding-bolt-head Charger Guide with the LEFT-HAND HALF of the Charger Bridge fixed to the Body; the remainder of the Charger Guide was on a SLIDE on the Bolt Head.

THIS rifle seems to have escaped the conversion to Mark I*** but was instead converted into a Rifle Number 2 (.22" RF) in 1940, at which time training rifles were needed quite desperately and there were no original I** spares left in the System. Where it managed to HIDE for the 16 years following 1924 (when they all were supposed to be converted to Mark III* status if they still existed) and 1940, nobody knows. A VERY close examination of the rifle in detail MIGHT give you a clue.

You have got yourself a Very Fine Toy there! I congratulate you on your excellent fortune!

 

[smellie]

Pricewise you did superbly.

Yes, an SMLE magazine is correct. For range use, they would remove the follower and spring, let the empties fall into the mag box. When you were finished, you removed the mag and emptied it.

Rifling in all of these old rifles was shallow but very well-cut. If you want the best accuracy today (without going broke buying Tenex) get a box of Remington Subsonics; they work just dandy with these old rifles.

Likely it still has the volley sights because it was hiding for a lot of years. When it was converted to .22, they were left on because it took too much time to remove them and restock the critter. Cutoff was removed as per 1924 instructions, but the rifle looks better with one. I have a cutoff on my 1907 Enfield I***, so you have company at least. We can all be wrong together but we do have pretty rifles.

Rear sight is from a Mark III or Mark III*. The original Mark I* sight would have been replaced because it was obsolete and there were no parts for it in the System any longer. Likely this was done during the 1940 rebuild.

Hope this helps.

 

[smellie]

HAH!

Found my glasses and looked closer.

Remember what I said about Navy rifles? Yours is one of them!

That "N" on the left side of the Butt Socket, just aft of the Safety Spring Screw, is the Navy ownership marking.

Give yourself a tot of Grog!

 

[Dyspnea]

Wow amazing info! Thank you! I'm really intrigued how it avoided conversion for 16 years, but will never know for certain. I will post some more photos and of better quality when I can. Hopefully more history can be uncovered.

I really can't wait to take it out too the range, I will certainly give the sub sonics a go.

Edit

On my quick research while at work, I couldn't find a lot of info on Mk 1** let alone a .22 rimfire version. I really appreciate it.

 

[Claven2]

Is there any chance the rifle has "I.P." stamped on it anywhere? If so, it's also possible it could be a MLM or MLE action converted to No.1MkIII pattern in India prior to 1918 using british parts and by British workers. A good many IP rifles ended up in europe in the great war and were treated just like any other MkIII rifle, some were also converted to No.2MkIV* pattern trainers for navy or army service (like yours is - navy, that is).

Also, the correct mag for that rifle is a No.1MkIII magazine with the follower removed and a small seriffed .22 hand-stamped into the side of the magazine body. The mag acted as a catch bin for empties.

The rifle, as configured, is not supposed to have a cutoff. They were purposefully removed when converted to .22 cal.

Ref volley sights, I've had probably 5 or 6 of these rifles over the years, all but one still have volley sights - the one that didn't was a 1917 action and never had volley sights to begin with. I've not seen or heard of any concerted effort to remove volley sights from service, they were only removed if a forestock was being replaced due to the old one being worn out.

EDIT: I just looked closer, it's not an IP rifle. The receiver was re-proofed in 1913 and has an ER proof cypher. This combination was never applied in Indian I.P. conversions. My take on the rifle's history:

1) Started life as a I* rifle (the I isn't centered under 1904, I* is more likely).
2) Converted to I** in 1913 or thereabouts.
3) Likely fought in WW1 as a I** rifle.
4) Converted to MkIII pattern in 1940 and likely served in WW2, post-dunkirk, during the rifle shortage as a .303 assembled from obsolete parts.
5) As a non-standard rifle, was converted to a .22 sometime between 1940 and 1948 when they stopped making No.2MkIV* pattern trainers.

Look at the muzzle - is the barrel re-lined to .22, or is it a .22 barrel? Look fore and aft of the rear sight on the barrel, is there an HV or SC stamped anywhere? My guess is re-lined. in 1940, the UK wasn;t building trainers on new .22 barrels, if anything they were converting trainers back to service rifles to replace losses.

 

[5THBATT]

The Mk1** SMLE is a rare find, congrats.
The Mk1** is a Naval conversion, Page 468 TLE by Ian Skennerton "approved in Naval Orders on 4th January 1908, this consists of the Mk1 SMLE being upgraded for Naval service so far as to incorporate improvements and some features of the MkIII SMLE. the foresight & U-sighting notch of the MkIII were utilized and a double spring handguard & barrel centering stud & spring under the nosecap were fitted to the fore-end.....etc..........From 1912, these rifles were further upgraded at Enfield to correspond with the MkIII SMLE by fitting a Charger bridge. The typical Mk1 SMLE foresight protector wings were straighterned......."

The Mk1*** indicates a rifle has been resighted for MkVII ammo, the SMLE Mk1, Mk1*, Mk1**s were converted & had the corrosponding number of *s added to their original (at time of conversion) designation, this is why you find Mk1*** in all sort of configurations, some rifles also received earlier upgrades during the *** upgrade.

 

[smellie]

@ 5THBATT:

My Navy Mark I*** has the proper HV marking on the Barrel, but with the Rear Sight Base (screwed to the Barrel as in Mark I practice) reground for the flatter trajectory. It still has the fine windgauge rear sight with horn buttons. It started off as a I*, upgraded to I**, upgraded to I***.

Originally, I bought the rifle as a barreled Body from Alan Lever for $2 from his JUNK Barrel: anything in the barrel was $2. I had read about the nice rear sight in Reynolds' book and really wanted one for my regular range rifle (which was not what YOU would call a "Range Rifle", BTW, simply an SMLE). I took the thing home and saw that the rifling at the Muzzle was awfully nice, so I cleaned it instead of disassembling it...... and the rifling just ahead of the Leade disappeared completely! Swabbed it out with a dry patch and tossed it in the corner. Picked it up a day later, after the solvent had had time to outgas, and saw that the rifling actually was to a constant DIAMETER but the BORE was TAPERED for the first 8 inches. Lands are nice and sharp all the way through, no rounding-off at all. It took a lot of reading and talking with older guys before I understood that I had stumbled across a remaining taper-bored barrel from the 1906/7 experimental lot.

ZOOMED back to Lever's, needless to say, and spent a couple of hours rooting through that barrel! By the time I was finished, I had a nice Mark III Butt and Forestock/Handguard set, a Bolt (which I changed-out years later for one with a better fit, which I then mated), Magazine which needed a bit of work on the Lips, a Cut-off..... and an old-style Mark III Nose Cap WITH the Stacking Swivel. By the time I was finished, I had a really pretty rifle with a total of $12 invested in it: a full day's pay and a bit at that time. At a BCACA show where I exhibited, I was offered $200 for it, which was a month's pay... but I kept it instead. This one is MINE.

And it is a Navy rifle, too: goes very nicely with my Navy Webley Mark VI.

I was happy then, 47 years go, still happy with it today.

And now our friend DYSPNEA has a good reason to be happy, too!

 

[Dyspnea]

Here are a few more photos, unfortunately the DSLR camera is packed away as I will be moving in two weeks.

The barrel is stamped with "HV. The barrel does not appear to be lined.

The butt stock and wrist area. The brass disc appears to be blank or was scrubbed.

Under side of the barrel

Not sure how much more information some of these photos will provide.

 

[Claven2]

That is 100% for certain a lined barrel. The HV over SC means it was once a barrel chambered for MkVII .303 ammo and the sights were calibrated accordingly. Not a bad thing, most almost all .22 Enfields are lined.

 

[Dyspnea]

That is 100% for certain a lined barrel. The HV over SC means it was once a barrel chambered for MkVII .303 ammo and the sights were calibrated accordingly. Not a bad thing, most almost all .22 Enfields are lined.

Good too know, i looked and looked around the muzzle and could not see any obvious "lining", they did a real nice job