I'm more of a rifle guy and other than my trusty old Remington 870, I'm not really up on what's what in the shotgun world. Here's my question to you more knowledgeable types. What would you suggest for a lady who's looking for a handy, short, manageable shotgun as a home/cottage defensive tool? She's not a strong person like the gym rat or body building type, and I was thinking of a Stoeger coach gun in 20ga. as I think .410 would be too anemic. BTW, she does have a PAL so it's all legal. Her budget is around 4 to 5 hundred, so price is a consideration. I know that 28 ga. is lighter, but I don't see much of that ammo around so I wanted something readily available like at Canadian Tire or suchlike. Also, there's a good variety of 20 ga. ammo so she could have everything from birdshot to rifled slugs, depending on the occasion. With a break action, you also have the option of fast reload or swapping out the ammo for something situation appropriate. So, your thoughts gentlemen?
Looking for suggestions
- Thread starter LawrenceN
- Start date
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
12.5” DA grizzly 12g 870 clone, swap out the boat anchor factory furniture with a Rem 870 synthetic stock and police forend to lighten up the overall weight, you should have no problem keeping within your budget. Especially if you look for a used one on the EE, they are solid shotguns and take 870 parts if you need to replace anything or dress it up. My wife has one and loves it, I just swapped out the factory stock for a Rem hardwood set I picked up for $75-80.
My wife was nervous about full power buck and slugs at first, we shot some clays with 7.5 birdshot till she was comfortable. Then a bunch of 00buck till she had a grin on her face then 2 3/4” slugs when she was comfortable. By the end of the day she was shooting 3” slugs like it was nothing, ease her into it and make her have fun and she’ll likely do fine with a 12g.
My wife was nervous about full power buck and slugs at first, we shot some clays with 7.5 birdshot till she was comfortable. Then a bunch of 00buck till she had a grin on her face then 2 3/4” slugs when she was comfortable. By the end of the day she was shooting 3” slugs like it was nothing, ease her into it and make her have fun and she’ll likely do fine with a 12g.
Nope, not a chance for a newbie for a 12 inch 870 shotgun platform.
The recoil and muzzle blast will cause her more greif that it is worth.
20 inch barrel and some light loads to work up to full powerhouse 12 gauge rounds if one is serious about getting a tool that can easily be handled.
Thats my .02 worth of opinion on this topic.
Rob
The recoil and muzzle blast will cause her more greif that it is worth.
20 inch barrel and some light loads to work up to full powerhouse 12 gauge rounds if one is serious about getting a tool that can easily be handled.
Thats my .02 worth of opinion on this topic.
Rob
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Bird shot in a 12.5” is pretty low recoil, muzzle blast well she’ll be wearing eye and ear pro. First time my wife shot hers with birdshot she laughed at how tame it was and she was a newbie at the time, all she had ever shot was an sks prior to her 12g.
Appreciate the input gentlemen, but I think she's kind of sold on the 20 ga., having fired mine. She likes the side by, probably being a traditionalist. I believe Pietta makes a coach gun as well, but I've heard negative things about them.
For what it is and the price, the Baikal is OK. She's looking for a SHORT shotgun, hence my thoughts on the Stoeger coach gun though the Grizzley looks good. Too bad that it's not available in 20 ga.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Canam made a 20g version recently but I don’t think it came with the short barrel, 18-20” iirc. Has she shot your 870 before?
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She tried a 12ga. at her uncle's place with birdshot and still that was far too enthusiastic for her. She tried my 20 ga. and after a few shots she found she could handle that OK, but that's as much gun as she can manage. I'll keep my eyes open at the local gun shows and see what pops up.
Anything in a 14in 12ga seems like it would be manageable 
.
But in all seriousness, a getting shot with a shotgun is going to suck either way, a 410 is still going to make anyone re-think their actions and old 20ga are pretty prevalent in auctions so you can't really go wrong either way.
.But in all seriousness, a getting shot with a shotgun is going to suck either way, a 410 is still going to make anyone re-think their actions and old 20ga are pretty prevalent in auctions so you can't really go wrong either way.
My thoughts exactly! Now what are the odds I can find one for under $500.?
Just to understand a little more clearly.
You say she is looking for a handy , short and manageable shotgun as a home/cottage defensive tool and your thinking a sxs coach gun will fit the bill?
She is being handi capped with two shots .
One will not be able to decide in the heat of the moment if the No.6 partridge rounds are going to be enough for the inquisitive Black Bear that comes sniffin around for that Fresh baked Cherry Pie.
Pete , Repeat and Ditto is what is needed cause the first two No.6's can be placed in the ground at the bears feet and the Ditto could be that Buckshot or Slug for the I mean business shot.
Thats just me though, all fueled up cause I put RedBull in my Coffee maker this morning and now I can see noise.
Rob
Okay, let's break down your observations. Two shot limit, yes! With practice (god bless snap caps) you can reload pretty quickly with a break open shotgun so the two shot limitation isn't much of an issue. Odds are high that if she has it handy, it'll be loaded for serious stopping power (ie: rifled slugs, buckshot,or SSG's) and she'd swap out the nasty loads for something softer if the situation warranted it. I taught her to be prepared for a worst-case scenario when you're in the bush and that once you've got your chosen firearm, practice, practice, practice!!! Practice loading and unloading, practice point and shoot, practice until your hands are sore, but get the movements imprinted in your muscle memory. Learn how to have more shells handy even as you're shooting, either in a butt stock holder or between your fingers. In other words, PRACTICE!
northern skies
CGN frequent flyer
The coach gun would work just fine for her in Ontario black bear country.
One point about light 20's is to be selective about what loads you put in them. There are a lot of stout loads on the market that would make it kick harder and sharper than a twelve.
I made some calculations for my 6.8lb 20 gauge double that I'll share:
>>>20ga. slug comparison:
-Challenger 2.75 mag, 7/8oz Gualandi DGS slug. 26.3ft.lbs recoil. 398gr@1610fps. 2291 ft.lb ME.
-Rottweil Exact 2.75” no.2317053, 7/8oz Gualandi DGS slug. 19.7ft.lbs recoil. 398gr@1361fps. 1637ft.lb ME.
-Rottweil Exact 3” mag no.2317054, 7/8oz Gualandi DGS slug. 23.1ft.lbs recoil. 398gr@1492fps. 1967ft.lb ME.
-Remington Slugger 2.75”, 5/8oz foster slug. 12.5ft.lb recoil. 273gr@1580fps. 1513ft.lb ME.
I would lean heavily toward the lighter loads with the Gualandi DGS slug, like the first Rottweil one in the chart. That slug will have much better penetration than the foster. Rottweil is a bit harder to find, but I got some at Triggers & Bows last year and have seen them elsewhere. Otherwise, compare the Challenger's with the 5/8oz foster. It's better that she doesn't end up despising the gun in the end. Don't think about it from a "facing down a bear" perspective, but more of a "developing a flinch while familiarizing one's self" one.
For bird shot, I calculated:
-Remington Game loads 7/8oz@1225fps 15.3 ft.lbs
-Winchester Super-X heavy game load 1oz@1165fps 18.2 ft.lbs
-Winchester Super-X "high brass" heavy game load 1oz@1220fps 21.4 ft.lbs
-Remington Nitro-Magnum 1-1/8oz@1175fps 22.9 ft.lbs
-Federal Prairie Storm 1oz@1350fps 30.9 ft.lbs!!!
As you can see, the variation can double the recoil! If you stick to the plain 7/8oz standard velocity load, I guarantee the grouse won't notice the difference. You really want to keep that recoil down. In my opinion, it really has to be justified to go over 20 ft.lbs in a practice or hunting load.
Note that an autoloader will have less felt recoil. There are complexities added here though. I could have recommended a nice SKB 20-gauge on the EE a few months ago... but a suitable one would pop up from time to time. If she's not serious about shooting though, I'd stick with the coach gun.
Also, make sure it fits her. If you have to cut down the stock, do it. When you do, put a good recoil pad on.
Good luck, I hope she likes it.
One point about light 20's is to be selective about what loads you put in them. There are a lot of stout loads on the market that would make it kick harder and sharper than a twelve.
I made some calculations for my 6.8lb 20 gauge double that I'll share:
>>>20ga. slug comparison:
-Challenger 2.75 mag, 7/8oz Gualandi DGS slug. 26.3ft.lbs recoil. 398gr@1610fps. 2291 ft.lb ME.
-Rottweil Exact 2.75” no.2317053, 7/8oz Gualandi DGS slug. 19.7ft.lbs recoil. 398gr@1361fps. 1637ft.lb ME.
-Rottweil Exact 3” mag no.2317054, 7/8oz Gualandi DGS slug. 23.1ft.lbs recoil. 398gr@1492fps. 1967ft.lb ME.
-Remington Slugger 2.75”, 5/8oz foster slug. 12.5ft.lb recoil. 273gr@1580fps. 1513ft.lb ME.
I would lean heavily toward the lighter loads with the Gualandi DGS slug, like the first Rottweil one in the chart. That slug will have much better penetration than the foster. Rottweil is a bit harder to find, but I got some at Triggers & Bows last year and have seen them elsewhere. Otherwise, compare the Challenger's with the 5/8oz foster. It's better that she doesn't end up despising the gun in the end. Don't think about it from a "facing down a bear" perspective, but more of a "developing a flinch while familiarizing one's self" one.
For bird shot, I calculated:
-Remington Game loads 7/8oz@1225fps 15.3 ft.lbs
-Winchester Super-X heavy game load 1oz@1165fps 18.2 ft.lbs
-Winchester Super-X "high brass" heavy game load 1oz@1220fps 21.4 ft.lbs
-Remington Nitro-Magnum 1-1/8oz@1175fps 22.9 ft.lbs
-Federal Prairie Storm 1oz@1350fps 30.9 ft.lbs!!!
As you can see, the variation can double the recoil! If you stick to the plain 7/8oz standard velocity load, I guarantee the grouse won't notice the difference. You really want to keep that recoil down. In my opinion, it really has to be justified to go over 20 ft.lbs in a practice or hunting load.
Note that an autoloader will have less felt recoil. There are complexities added here though. I could have recommended a nice SKB 20-gauge on the EE a few months ago... but a suitable one would pop up from time to time. If she's not serious about shooting though, I'd stick with the coach gun.
Also, make sure it fits her. If you have to cut down the stock, do it. When you do, put a good recoil pad on.
Good luck, I hope she likes it.
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