Looking into a WWII era sniper rifle...

mtallman

mtallman

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Hi,
I was hoping one of you "seasoned" milsurp nuts could help me in selecting a rifle. I am looking for a WWII sniper rifle in original configuration for a WWII milsurp shoot coming up in a little over a month. I would like to get a couple weeks to do some shooting, and get to know her. (The targets will be from 2-400 yards)

Thus, I am looking for a rifle that I can do a fair bit of shooting with (probably 500-1000 rounds a year), and not a museum quality piece that will loose value with a few scratches.

Now, money is an issue, and I would like to keep it under $2-3k or so (loosely). I would like something that will keep its value, or at least I will not loose piles of money with (this is just for this competition, if I get something I like I will likely keep it for future ones, if it is something I don't particularlly like, I might keep it in the collection, or possibly sell it in the future).

I've seen the P&S SVT-40's with the repro scopes and mounts for around $1400, and the #4T's on CS for the price sum of $32-3500. I also know there are some "repro" Mosin-Nagants going around in the under $600 range (I wouldn't want to make a repro one, but I would consider buying one if it was out there for a reasonable price, and would do its job in the shoot). I saw an M1D in the Brandon Show several months ago that I would have bought if the circumstances are as they are now.

So my question is, what would you recommend? All factors considered, should I go with the cheap throw together MN, or the original, matching M1D or #4T for a much higher sum, keeping in mind all the factors above. Are there any other places I'm missing? Should I go with a WTB in the EE and see what turns up?

Thanks,
Matt
 
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LOTS O Luck finding a 4T or an M1D for under 2K.

On that sten, it must be the new model, as mine is still 9mm and I can't change those 32 rd mags that fast.:rolleyes:
 
Well if you want a WW2 era sniper rifle for cheap how about the SVT-40 with scope you mentioned ?? :confused:

P&S Military is selling them for 1,375$ each, leaving you plenty of money to buy ammo, lets see thats what 1,500$ with GST and Shipping (a rough guess of mine), so that leaves you with about 400$ worth of surplus Ammo. :p

Dimitri
 
If you are going to shoot 1k a year, it won't be too long before you need to rebarrel. Better to get a made up rifle than use up a collectible original. Made up MNs or the SVTs come to mind. I'm currently making a look a like 1903A4 with Weaver 330 scope. Started with a bubba'd sporter with a sharp barrel. All told, its going to come in under $500, and I have a new in the grease barrel to install if needed.
Another option is a No. 4 with repro mount and a Lyman Alaskan or Weaver 330 scope to simulate a LB with a 32TP scope. Lots of candidate No.4s around which have only slight collector value, and the commercial versions of these scopes are not terribly expensive.
Another option for a classic sniper would be a sported 1910 Ross, with a Winchester A5 scope. A Lyman 5A would also look right. The Winchester scope won't be cheap, perhaps $500+, but the Ross, with full length barrel and stock cut in front of the band shouldn't cost much more than $200.
If you are considering a M-1D, be very careful. Many of the ones on the market are made up, but are priced as if they are 100% original.
 
Get a RC K98. Get a B-Square no gunsmithing mount. Buy a good new scope.

Lots of cash left over for ammo and accessories.
 
If it has to be original configuration or a close facimile then you could buy an RC KAR98k with a Zrak scope mount. It's not exactly right, but pretty damn close to the real thing.

The RC's are parts guns, so you will be bubba'ing something that's on the low scale of collectability.

Next would be a mosin refurb sniper rifle. Holes are drilled already and it sounds like it's fairly easy to convert back into a sniper. You also have the option of el-cheapo ammo with this set up too.
 
Don't take a collector grade rifle and shoot out the barrel. You'd be wasting two or three grand on something that will no longer have it's value when you're done with it, and that makes no sense. Build up an old mil-surp from the ground up. You won't have a rifle built in time for a competition, so get a loaner, or buy one, use it on the competition and then sell it to finance a build.

Hear me out on this.

You would be better off building a Garand or an M1917 Enfield from the ground up as a 'sniper' rifle. Or anything American for that matter. Replacement parts are widely available for Garands and M-14 style rifles (not WWII, but close), as well as M1903's and M1917's. Repro barrels and stocks are all made by different companies for these 4 rifles, so in theory you could shoot them indefinitely for not a whole lot of money. They'd be alot cheaper and just as viable options as any collector grade rifle and won't cost you as much.

Find a good action to build on, or buy an old mil-surp with a worn out barrel, and re-build. You could definately keep the cost well below $1500 with this option, depending on the rifle.

The whole 'cheap ammo' argument doesn't work for the Mosin Nagants or SVT 40's, because if you want to get any kind of accuracy out of either you will need to make handloads and tailor them to your cricumstances. There are a ton of options out there for .30-06 loadings already developed vs. 7.62x54r loadings.

Just something to consider.
 
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If you search, Claven2 describes the restoration of an ex-sniper 91/30. He used original parts, but repro scopes and mounts are available. Total cost using a repro scope and mount, including the receiver and bolt handle alterations should not exceed $700, less if you do the gunsmithing yourself.
A M-1 barrel can be altered to accept a repro M-1D mount, but M-84 scopes aren't readily available. The scopes used on P-14 snipers are not readily available, nor are the mounts, and are expensive when offered.
Any military rifle can be scoped, but if it is desired to have the rifle simulate an original, some projects would be easier and less expensive than others.
 
Maybe an Israeli 98k Mauser with a Scout Mount config using a Long eye relief scope. The Israeli Mausers are fairly cheap and have the 7.62 barrel. I find mine very accurate. I use a Bushnell Trophy 2-6 X32 long eye relief but I only play out to 200 yards but I know I could go out further but the club I shoot at has only a 100 and 200 yrd range. I heard the 98K was used right into the Bosnian H conflict for snipers. Then of course the is the Springfield 1903A3 but they are pricey and hard to find here.
 
You can't go wrong with a 4T. The price just keeps skyrocketing on them, and when you think the prices can't go any higher, up they jump again.
If you want a Garand sniper, contact FNC1 off the board. I believe he had one for sale at the Calgary show for just under the 2K mark. He also had a mismatched T for under the 3K mark. From an investment standpoint, I don't know if the Garand is going to appreciate the same way the Enfield will.


You can sink all the money you want in to a fake, but in the end they will still be a fake, and appropriately priced.
 
stencollector said:
You can sink all the money you want in to a fake, but in the end they will still be a fake, and appropriately priced.
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He's shooting them, not collecting them. A 'fake' sniper set up, done properly will shoot as good or better than the original, and won't destroy a collectable.
 
Tyler said:
He's shooting them, not collecting them. A 'fake' sniper set up, done properly will shoot as good or better than the original, and won't destroy a collectable.
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I have a LongBranch 4T, all matching numbers and in exc shape. I shoot it at any of the matches requiring this period of rifle. The value is not detracted by doing so, provided you take care of the rifle and maintain the scope and accessories.
The military shot them, and so can we.

The only gun I have which I won't shoot is an in the grease un-issued Cno7. To take an unfired rifle (other than it may have been proof fired at the factory) and turn it into just another shooter is a different story.

No offense to the guys shooting fakes, but you can dress up yer cousin and take her to the prom, but shes still just yer cousin.
 
stencollector said:
No offense to the guys shooting fakes, but you can dress up yer cousin and take her to the prom, but shes still just yer cousin.
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I don't think that matters to people who just want an accurate representation of a period piece to take shooting and not worry about.

All rifles have limited life spans, fire them enough and they will wear out. I'd feel more comfortable shooting a repro rig that I can rebarrel or repair without detracting from the value of an all matching collector piece.
 
Hotrod a Norinco M14 to the nuts with USGI Parts and it will be better than what you were going to do. Think of it as post WW2.
 
I would use a sportered k98 in an original or boyds stock. Lots of spares & you won't trash any piece of history at all. There are at least 3 guns I have seen in the last while that would fit that bill perfectly for under $250 already drilled & with mint bores too.
 
"...WWII milsurp shoot coming up..." Does it have to be a sniper variant or will any rifle do? 400 yards, while a long way, isn't that far for any milsurp rifle in good condition. Finding a sniper, working up a load and learning to shoot it in a month won't be easy.
 
Really is the experience of shooting a repro any different than shooting an original? Why not try out a bunch of sporterized rifles pick the one that shoots the best and build on it? That is exactly what they did in WW2 anyway.

I think Garand snipers could start to catch up to the T's in value. When it comes to antiques the stuff that is important in US history is worth a premium because they have the money to spend on it. Right now original pre WW2 jap swords are worth way more than they should be because of japanese people trying to buy them back to japan as well as north american collectors.
Americans are very proud of their military history all it would take is a good movie about say a korean war sniper with a garand to double the current value overnight.
 
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