Lsa mlm mk ii* ?

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Saskgeol

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Just recently picked up an early british rifle. I am posting pictures in the hope that those with more knowledge of these guns might offer some advice and confirm or refute my understanding of what this gun is.

Gun is labelled as a London Small Arms MK II* (on wristband). I'm assuming (possibly incorrectly) that it is a Lee-Metford. All visible numbers are #983 (assuming that is the serial #). There are some small proof marks on the receiver that I can't decode as well as some letters. This gun seems to be lightly marked/proofed compared to any of the other examples I've seen. Volley sights are intact and plain, compared to some of the MLM guns online. On the right side of receiver it says Lee-Speed Patents, which I believe is for commercial guns only. I didn't know if that jived with the existing proof marks. On the front of the bolt dustcover you can make out another faint 'PATENT" marking. Magazine lockout plate appears to be an early 1890-1895 judging by the hole and detent tab pattern. The stock looks like a bubba-job, but it is close to the Lee-patents commercial pattern, without any of the fancy accoutrements. If it has been modified it's a shame as the wood is in incredible shape. Other than the attached pictures there are no marks on the metal to denote anything. Barrel is in remarkable shape. I appreciate any information people are willing to share. I have tried determining as much as I can, but the variability of these guns and the rarity makes things tough. Gun seems to be in amazing shape for its age and model. Maybe I'm missing something.
sideprofile_zpsafa49909.jpg

SideBelt_zpsa8512ee0.jpg

Receiver_zps22f7610f.jpg

Proofstamps_zpsf6c33d29.jpg

lockoutplate_zps1fa26772.jpg

leftside_zpsca5ac244.jpg

leftsidereceiver_zps26621c19.jpg

bolt_zpsf9d5b289.jpg


Ps-Thanks for the help.
 
Nice find!

You tagged it correctly as a Lee Metford. It has been sportered with the full length military fore arm cut back. Let me add my tuppence worth.

It is a rifle made for the commercial trade. Military arms are made to comply exactly with a sealed pattern sample, commercial ones are not. In fact, a rifle could be ordered from the factory with a number of options. Yours appears generally to conform to the Mk.II* pattern of Lee Metford having the safey catch on the bolt, that pegs it post 1895.

My thoughts are that this one was originally made for sale to militia or volunteer units. I say that because normally, the martial designation of Mk.II* would not be there on a commercial arm for the general public sale, just the maker info. Lee Speed patents had to be shown up until around 1910 (I can't remember the exact date, rotten memory and dont have my refs handy, but I'm close) when the patents expired and no longer had to be credited.

The barrel wears pre 1904 London Proof House markings, which makes sense (London Small Arms). The 8 grains of 'rifleite' is the charge for the cartridge, Rifleite being an early nitrocellulose based smokeless powder. This info is something that also was only shown on commercial guns.

The trigger guard looks to me to be one of the style fitted to Sht LE rifles having the swivel mount lugs just ahead of the magazine. The mag also appears to be Sht.LE style. This could be a later change, or could be factory (doubtful). Are there any markings on the loop of the guard? Normally, a Sht.LE mag will not work with a Metford cutoff due to the feed lips. The right feed lip sticks up and interferes with the cutoff, hence the notch seen in Sht.LE units. Your cutoff appears to be a Metford unit as witnessed by the full width chamfer at the back edge.

Something going on with that rear sling swivel. Maybe just the pic but it doesn't quite look like the MLM screw in type, but maybe a Sht.LE unit. Does the butt plate have three screws and a long upper tang?

So all in all a very nice project. No doubt very shootable as is. Should you ever decide to restore it back to 'original commercial spec', you have a certain amount of leeway in how you fix her up. Easy resto in that it will be an assembly of replacement parts. The real challenge would be to find them, which to me is half the fun of collecting an restoring.
 
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Englishman, first off thanks for the help. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

I'll try and get some pics uploaded, but in the meantime:
Rear sling swivel is a thread in, screw is incredibly coarse thread, looks like a drywall screw!

Clip will go in when loaded, but the right side refuses to feed properly, if round is on left side it will feed easily. Cutoff is very tight to open, and impossible to close so I'm assuming its the improper magazine.


I Managed to figure out how to disassemble my gun, removed the bolt and dustcover. On the bottom of the bolt knob is another crown/over 'v' symbol. On the bottom of the bolt cocker/safety is "27". At the end of the receiver, where the bolt handle would hide when action closed is a number "6" stamped on the flat area. No marks on trigger housing or trigger. Trigger has 3 vertical lines milled about halfway up. These end at a horizontal indent about halfway down. I will try and get pictures uploaded.


Butt late is two large screws, one small pin below top screw. Brass wraps over top of stock approx 1inch.


Again, thanks for all the help. I'll get pictures uploaded as I'm sure descriptions aren't enough.
 
It sounds as if the mag issue is due to fitting a Sht LE mag into the Long Lee receiver. You will munch the right front feed lip with the cut off, if you havn't already. By the descripption of the feeding problem, I'd say the lip has been squished.

Work around solution is to get correct Long Lee mag for it (has a rounder front edge to the body, smaller right front feed lip) or, if you just need to get that puppy shooting this afternoon, pull the fore stock and take the cut off plate right out. The Sht LE mag will fit with the cut off removed and the feed lip can be tweaked back into position.
 
I'm an amateur when it comes to older guns, so i've been afraid to shoot it. Courtesy of the information of this forum, I know it can handle nitrocellulose powder, but I was unsure if it could handle newer ammunition.

I have a box of Hornady .303, would it be safe to shoot? Will modern ammo/powder detoriate the Metford rifling faster?

I have this gun, an 8mm Lebel, and a Type 99 Arisaka, and modern manufacture ammo for all, that I would love to shoot; but I worry that in my inexperience I would ruin them. I'm sure the rarity of these guns can be attributed to people destroying them with well intentioned ignorance.
 
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