I would like to trace the history on my Luftwaffe M30 Drilling. Does anyone know who to contact? So far, my internet searches have come up with some interesting history but no serious contacts to see which aircraft or other bit of history may be attached to this gun.
Luftwaffe M30 Drilling
- Thread starter Westmorland
- Start date
I know they were issued to bomber and transport crews, not fighters. Fighter aircraft carried a Kar98k mounted on clips inside the fuselage. Only aircraft that operated in North Africa and the Med were so issued.
The 'black men' Luftwaffe ground crew, so named since they all wore black coveralls, would remove most non airframe items such as rafts and other survival gear after the end of operations for the day. The desert cools off so much at night that dew would be a problem, so one can safely assume that the rifle would be removed as well. Something such as special (even then) as the M30, its care might be assigned to a flight crew member.
Next op, the survival gear goes back in the airplane, whether or not the same M30 or Kar98 went into the same airplane we will never know. The M30 cases seem to not to be marked with an airplane call sign.
For example, if a M30 case had stenciled on it 3Z+FR we could safely assume via Luftwaffe records that that case would have been assigned to a Dornier Do17E that flew in North Africa with KG77 in 1942. I have never been in a Do17 as none survive (except one found recently off a beach in sea water in England) , but I have been in a Heinkel 111, a ex Spanish bird that came to YYC many years ago. It was so cramped inside I could not imagine where exta gear would even be stowed!
No cases appear to be so marked with aircraft numbers. Fantastic item nonetheless!
The 'black men' Luftwaffe ground crew, so named since they all wore black coveralls, would remove most non airframe items such as rafts and other survival gear after the end of operations for the day. The desert cools off so much at night that dew would be a problem, so one can safely assume that the rifle would be removed as well. Something such as special (even then) as the M30, its care might be assigned to a flight crew member.
Next op, the survival gear goes back in the airplane, whether or not the same M30 or Kar98 went into the same airplane we will never know. The M30 cases seem to not to be marked with an airplane call sign.
For example, if a M30 case had stenciled on it 3Z+FR we could safely assume via Luftwaffe records that that case would have been assigned to a Dornier Do17E that flew in North Africa with KG77 in 1942. I have never been in a Do17 as none survive (except one found recently off a beach in sea water in England) , but I have been in a Heinkel 111, a ex Spanish bird that came to YYC many years ago. It was so cramped inside I could not imagine where exta gear would even be stowed!
No cases appear to be so marked with aircraft numbers. Fantastic item nonetheless!
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Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Beautiful gun indeed. And these often are priced right around $19,000 US dollars dependant on condition.
It is rumoured that General Curtis Lemay had a pair of them for his own use.
Myself, I can only afford a hammer drilling of blackpowder vintage.
You are one lucky person Westmorland.
Edit; You are in need of a more specialized site than this one IMO.
Perhaps doubleguns dot com or germanguns dot com.
It is rumoured that General Curtis Lemay had a pair of them for his own use.
Myself, I can only afford a hammer drilling of blackpowder vintage.
You are one lucky person Westmorland.
Edit; You are in need of a more specialized site than this one IMO.
Perhaps doubleguns dot com or germanguns dot com.
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's unlikely you will ever find more information than you already know.
You can determine the production date based on your serial number, but that's about it.
The Luftwaffe did not track the history of each M30 Drilling they issued out. Most vault information has been destroyed long ago, and the chances of getting a hit on your serial number in any of the archives is basically one in a million.
It's a common misconception that this sort of information can be tracked for military firearms, but in reality it's very hard to determine where most military firearms served or who they were issued to.
Hopefully this won't be another 'hit and run' post in the milsurp forum and you will come back and share some photos of your M30 Drilling with us?
-Steve
Even with original box I haven't seen any bringing that much lately even South of the border. Maybe half of that at best without box. And if the gun is refinished/humped/rough condition I wouldn't expect more than maybe a couple thousand.
-Steve
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Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I respectfully disagree. Rock Island Auction House had one that realized anywhere from 22,000-35,000.
Gunsamerica had one that sold for 15,500. And Collector's Firearms in Texas has one presently listed for 19,000.
Notice I said in my original post, dependant on condition.
A couple of thousand dollars, just barely breaks the surface of the European drilling market for old sporter variants that do not have any historical value. This is not so with the wartime M30.
Gunsamerica had one that sold for 15,500. And Collector's Firearms in Texas has one presently listed for 19,000.
Notice I said in my original post, dependant on condition.
A couple of thousand dollars, just barely breaks the surface of the European drilling market for old sporter variants that do not have any historical value. This is not so with the wartime M30.
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I'm sorry to come off as a #### but $12k is laughable.
Even in the USA where the market is ten times stronger, it wouldn't be worth that.
It's sanded, cracked, cut for buttpad and drilled and tapped, that all adds up to not $12k
I'm not sure where you got your value but if one went for $12k it was likely none of the things I listed above.
Even in the USA where the market is ten times stronger, it wouldn't be worth that.
It's sanded, cracked, cut for buttpad and drilled and tapped, that all adds up to not $12k
I'm not sure where you got your value but if one went for $12k it was likely none of the things I listed above.
This is likely the source of the price. But these guns are WORLDS apart.
Unaltered and untouched are the key.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=429863183
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=428789768
They have also been there awhile.
Unaltered and untouched are the key.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=429863183
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=428789768
They have also been there awhile.
Interesting that the other thread discussing this rifle has mysteriously 'disappeared' without any explanation.
I thought this forum was for honest discussion of milsurp rifles. Discussing value and originality is logical. If I post something here I do so welcoming all comments, even if someone points out something that might be incorrect or not original.
Maybe a moderator can explain to us why the thread discussing the Drilling was deleted?
-Steve
I thought this forum was for honest discussion of milsurp rifles. Discussing value and originality is logical. If I post something here I do so welcoming all comments, even if someone points out something that might be incorrect or not original.
Maybe a moderator can explain to us why the thread discussing the Drilling was deleted?
-Steve
stickhunter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria, B.C.
I agree with you. It's for this reason that I'm pretty cynical about a lot of "what is this worth" posts and rarely participate. More often than not (and not saying that the OP falls into this category, but there were some recent ones on "unissued" Lee-Enfields) the posts are a fishing expedition to elicit an offer outside of the normal EE process.
The ad for this drilling originally had a reference to the thread, which I respected the OP for doing as that thread had a lot of interesting details about drillings and his rifle in particular. Unfortunately, I see that link has now been removed from the ad along with the thread.
